Look at Charles a couple of years ago. Even though his open market value was near 10 million, he signed for 1 million to HELP THE ROCKETS bring in Scottie Pippen. Now we have Hakeem, PIPE DREAMING, knowing perfectly well that we could not even sign our own free agents if we gave him 10 million. I think it will be funny to see his comments after he tests the free market and finds out what he's really worth. Maybe he is setting us up for a sign and trade deal. That is the only way he could get more money, and maybe he can leave a good guy if we get something in return. ------------------
Timing- We must have saw a different CB4. When Charles was here in Houston he was the most consistent player on the roster. Dream wasn't playing at 100% most of the time with injuries, his breathing, but Charles always played at 100%. Think back to the Laker series when Charles played great while Shaq dominated Dream and Kobe tore into Pip. Barkley always played hard even when he was injured. Yeah he may be somewhat selfish, but every superstar is somewhat selfish.
The fact of the matter is that Barkley looked at the bigger picture, making the Rockets better. Hakeem is looking at making his own wallet bigger. Hakeen is willing to sacrifice the Rockets immediate future to make a quick buck. If they guy could play the whole season and play 35 minutes and average 20 ppg and 10 rpg, then I say lets keep him. But he has been plagued with heath problems and cannot play the same game as somebody that deserves 10 million a year. ------------------
If Hakeem averages 20/10, we would not need C-Webb (or other so-called good PF's) ... not that I want C-Webb to come here. I'm not a big C-Webb-come-here fan. Webber sucks! ------------------ Technically speaking, we're #1! ~Portland fans
Barkley didn't "sacrifice". He saw an opportunity to repair his image, and took it. Had he already won 2 rings like Hakeem, he wouldn't have done it. It wasn't about "the team", it was about Barkley seeing a chance to a)come off as unselfish, and b)possibly get HIMSELF a ring.
Tiiming: Sorry pal, but every superstar in the NBA is selfish, it just depends what you are looking at. I love Clyde, but he also is one of the most selfsish palyers of all time. Mike, #33, Shaq, Lary Bird, all and all have some type of selfishness. Just because someone wins a championship does not make him not selffish. Charles was on his best behavior here. He never ever crticized the offense or his touches, and if he did, he kept it in the lockeroom. Charles is an upstanding guy, who made some poor decisons in his early career, but us HOUSTON fans saw a great Charles. The one who had clearly lost a step, but did what he had to do to win. Offering to be a sixth man, being the second or third option, taking the minimum salary to play with #33, I mean please, the guy had plenty of class. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
I don't think Barkley cared about image, I do think he cared about getting a ring. Remember, he wasn't just signing for 1 million to play for Houston, he sacrificed to play WITH Hakeem and Scottie Pippen. If they'd been healthy and Pippen hadn't sucked, that team would have had a great shot at the title. I can't blame Hakeem for wanting market value for his services. Do I wish he would 'sacricie?' Of course, but I don't fault him for not doing so. What would YOU do for another 4 or 5 mill? ------------------ A few years back on the Senate floor... Phil Gramm: "If Democrats could, they'd tax the air we breathe." Ted Kennedy (jumping up): "By God, why didn't I think of that sooner!" Boston College - NCAA Hockey National Champions 2001
I'll tell you what I remember about Barkley. I remember him getting dominated by Karla Malone in the Western Finals. I remember Rudy at pivotal moments going to Barkley against Utah, out of some sense of loyalty/respect to him, only to get destroyed by Karla. Barkley pulled an Otis Thorpe against Karla, except Barkley was a Hall of Famer while Otis was just a significantly less talented hard working team player. I remember Barkley throwing up iso bricks from 3 land at the end of every quarter. I remember him flagrantly fouling Hakeem in Game 7 of the 94 Semifinals with time expiring. I remember how gutless he was with series on the line not only for Houston but against Houston. Missed free throws, bad shots, no defense, and he still couldn't resist opening his big mouth to say he lost to better teams when in reality he just choked against similarly talented teams. Some of you can choose to remember how he played when there was really nothing to play for but I recall things differently. That's what I remember about Charles Barkley. ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.
Yeah, but I'm not already a millionaire. Dream may be risking his reputation as a Houston icon for an extra million or two. Is it really worth it? ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
I remember Charles leading the Rockets to a lead with the Utah series (the year before Scottie) and when he was injured the remaining Rockets chocked up the lead and lost the series. I am not defending Charles character, the fact is the Hakeem knows he will destroy the rockets cap with his demands. I personally think he wants out, and this way he can look like a good guy. But if he signs for 1 million in Washington his image will be shattered in Houston. ------------------
Timing: I guess you also remember Hakeem a few years back (before the championships) when he demanded to be traded. Selective memory, yeah probably. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
Timing- I remember CB4 playing well against Karla right up until the time he injured his shoulder. I remember CB4 playing essentailly with one good hand in that series. CB4 essentailly played another HOFer to a draw. Where was our other HOFers at? Yeah I know Stockton shot the winner over CB4 on a switch too but it was a great shot and a hold by Karla that got him open. Also I don't rember CB4 ever being on a tremendously talented team until he came here. In Philly the only other players after his 3rd year was Hershey Hawkins (good in college) and Rick Mahorn. Dang that is talent. In Phoenix he played with KJ (yep he played great for the 30 games a year he was healthy), Ainge (yep he could still shoot and was gritty), Majerle (who was only an offensive force when he could jump "Thunder Dan" and when CB was doubled and gave Makerle open 3s) and Ced Ceballos (what has he played on like 6 teams in 8 years, yep he is that dang good). Remember the Dream Tream? He played hard their all the time. Yeah I do rember the elbow too, but go back and watch the tapes he played hard there too. Then he came here. He always played hard and was succesful. If you don't remember that then I really can't help you.
By the way, talking about the Dream Team, Charles was voted twice by the players as MVP. I wonder why? It must be because he was partying all night, or maybe because he busted his azz on the court. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
The most important part of your post is THE CHAMPIONSHIPS. Dream won titles. He played big in big games. He carried his team. He never disappeared when it was all on the line. Dream won titles with guys like Chucky Brown, Pete Chilcutt, Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Chris Jent, and Otis Thorpe. Barkley didn't have any talent? HUH? He battled Malone to a draw in the Western Finals? Are you serious? Stop making excuses for the Chokester. I guess Barkley never demanded to be traded. Try again... ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.
I forgot that Toronto was offering Doug Christie and Marion for Hakeem. Damn could you imagine how many games Houston would of won with those guys playing with Steve and Cuttino last season? ------------------
I thought we were talking about charactrer not HALL OF FAME CREDENTIALS. No one is saying Chuck is better than Hakeem. That is obvious. I thought I was just defending his character. But I guess you need to try again with your arguing tactics. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
Timing- Remember what you want about CB4. He is a champion. No matter what you think. Not an NBA champion but an Olympic champion (twice), and a hero and idol to as many as Dream and any other NBA player outside of MJ. Obviously you are upset because your favorite player doesn't want to play here any more, so there is no use reasoning with you.
Dont knock Dream , Hes been so great to the City of Houtson for 20 years. As much as I hate to say it I would rather have a Chris Webber in his prime than an over-the-hill Dream any day of the weak . Dream has given us many good years , I dont think its fair to demand of him any more years , He's given us too many already . ------------------ The Rocket Saint ST.eve Francis of a CC.net
I'm quite content with whatever decision Dream makes. I made peace with my thoughts on the matter in his last game. If you weren't there, you probably wouldn't understand. I didn't even talk about his play until others brought up the subject. Obviously 4chuckie if you're upset that you're on the defenseless side of an argument you must attack the bearer of the bad news. The fact is that Dream's class or lack thereof has no bearing on whatever business decision he makes. When I see threads like this I feel like puking. Puff wants to say Dream demanded a trade but casually omits that Barkley has been traded twice under hostile circumstances? Hell he's still not on speaking terms with Colangelo. That's weak. Dream is a role model and has willingly taken on that responsibility. Barkley has publically stated he's not a role model and has been known to find his way into prison after bar room brawls. Of course it's never his fault even though he's always on the paying end of some lawsuit settlement. There is no comparison between these guys. Dream can sign with whoever he wants, it doesn't diminish a thing he's done here. ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient. [This message has been edited by Timing (edited May 23, 2001).]
Well please puke then. No really go ahead and puke. Lets remember what I was trying to point out. I have never tried to compare the two. I love Dream, and haver nothing but positive things to say, but what I was trying to do was illustrate that even our folk hero Hakeem the Dream has selfish tendencies. I am not ignoring the fact about how Charles handled the Phoenix and Philadelphia situation, rather I am embrassing it. I from the begining of this topic, have and will continue to say, that Chuck was a good citizen here in Houston, and that was it. So please, spare me with your one sided ridiculous argument about Dream. Your arguing a dead issue. WE ALL AGREE DREAM IS GREAT. I am just saying, Chuck was pretty damn good too. He helped us have our second best winning season, played unselfish ball, was loved by Rudy and even Dream. Great in the community. That was it. But if you want, we can argue how good of a guy Robert Horry is or Chuckie Brown, but again thats not the topic. get a grip Timing, because your timing on this topic is way off. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
