If you look back over the past month at the posts on the BBS, several names might be the most frequently mentioned here. No, not Eddie Griffin, Shane Battier, Steve Francis, or Cuttino Mobley. Guys like Kelvin Cato, Mircad Turkcan, Roderick Rhodes, Serge Zwikker, Scottie Pippen, Shandon Anderson, etc. Why? Almost every one of these guys has been compared to someone the Rockets have looked at in the draft, or will be looking at in free agency. Everyone knows that you learn from past mistakes. That is a given. We learn this in our daily lives in whatever we do, and the Rockets learn it in their business of dealing with players. But, the nature of the business is mistakes will inevitably occur. No one can be perfect, not even Carroll Dawson and Rudy Tomjanovich. Let's say you go to a new restaurant and order your favorite hamburger. It tastes good at first, so you buy it, but later on it makes you completely sick to your stomach. You know you made a mistake in ordering that food. But, because one place served a bad hamburger, are you going to boycott them for life? I'd hope not. You'd regroup, go somewhere else, order a similar item, and it will probably be fine. I know it's a stretch to compare that to free agency, but that is the only analogy I could come up with at this time, and it seems to fit the description. You can draw some similarities to past negative situations in almost everything you do. Sometimes you can list hundreds of simularities to the negative experiences. But because one bad thing happened, are you going to avoid everything like it for the rest of your life? Again, I hope not, because you'll miss out on a lot of amazing things due to the possibility that the negative situation could come to fruition again. You have to take some risks to be successful in life. So how does this apply to the Rockets? Well, here's a few of the countless things some BBS members have said, or implied, in the last month: Vladimir Radmanovic and Pau Gasol are Mircad Turkcan's waiting to happen Mo Taylor and Marc Jackson will turn into Kelvin Cato when they get a big contract Troy Murphy is another (insert slow unathletic white player's name here) who will amount to nothing, like Zwikker, etc. Fears are natural. But to miss out on the possibilities of great things because of fears such as those above is sad. Vladimir Radmanovic has good athletism, a good shooting touch, and had good workouts. Who's to say he can't be like Dirk Nowitzki rather than Mircad Turkcan? Mo Taylor had a fairly promising season this year. Already, that's more than Cato, who had a few good preseason games. He and Jackson both showed a lot of skills that could be beneficial to this team, and could be beneficial to a championship team. We have no evidence to suggest that their mentality is anywhere near the Kelvin Cato range, and we have no reason to believe that they have a poor work ethic and are out there for the money. They are young big men with good potential, and yet because of that they are given the stereotype of a Kelvin Cato waiting to happen. Ever heard of Jermaine O'Neal? Same scenario a couple of years ago. Good potential, not a lot of results yet. He sure isn't a Kelvin Cato. Troy Murphy was somebody that the Rockets didn't need, as he was a pure PF. But that isn't why many posters didn't like him. It was because he looked very similar physically to some prior draft picks that were slow, didn't have great athletism, and resembled big man busts such as Jon Koncak, Serge Zwikker, and others in that fashion. Many didn't take the time to see that he had dropped 20 pounds since the end of the season, and was displaying remarkable athletism at workouts. Many didn't take the time to see his toughness, and the fundamentals he possesses. They saw he was a white basketball player, heard he wasn't exceptionally quick, and immediately thought of Serge Zwikker. Ever heard of Larry Bird and Kevin McHale? And, while it hasn't been mentioned yet, you could also compare Eddie Griffin to Derrick Coleman in several areas. I could probably make you a 1-5 list if you want, just like many did with whoever and Kelvin Cato. It doesn't mean it will happen does it? The Rockets took the risk that many teams didn't, and most people agree with me and feel it will pay great dividends in the long run. To conclude this rant, championship teams take risks. The Lakers had Shaq, but they also had Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, and others. They took the risk that Kobe Bryant would be a star in the future, and dealt away those others for role players that beautifully compliment the big two. The Rockets in '95 had just come off a championship, and traded away Thorpe, who many thought was a big part of the heart of this team, for a guard in Drexler. It payed big dividends, and we won a championship again. Almost every potential free agent has some simularity to Kelvin Cato, Scottie Pippen, or others. Almost every potential draft pick has some simularity to Roderick Rhodes, Mircad Turkcan, Bryce Drew, or Serge Zwikker. You don't see the Rockets afraid, do you? You have to take risks to be successful. Drop all the talk that someone is a Kelvin Cato waiting to happen, until you have solid evidence to back it up. And listing simularities to their respective situations is not evidence. I could list simularities in the backgrounds of Hakeem Olajuwon and Yinka Dare before they entered the NBA-- does that mean Yinka is the next Dream? Don't think so. We need to learn from our past mistakes, but not to the extent that we pass on very talented players because of a couple of minor simularities. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Are you kidding? ------------------ Rockets' offseason tasks in order of priority: Get rid of Cato under any circumstances. Sign Chris Webber. Re-Sign Hakeem. Re-Sign Moochie and AirBullard. Pick up the Langhi option for another year. Trade for Bo Outlaw and Raef LaFrentz. .....-'-. ../`.....|__ /`....--`-,-` '-|`...o.'<-....[] ..\....._\__).\=` ...C_..`....,_/ .....|.;----' come back with your original name...now that everyone is changing their screen names anyway
My favorite posts are always the one's that come after a player has been out with an injury for a few weeks that say, "That guy sucks." ------------------ How the hell should I know why God would allow the Holocaust. I don't even know how the electric can opener works. - from Hannah and Her Sisters
What part of Mo Taylor's season was fairly promising? Give me a break. Similarities of Yinka Dare and Hakeem in college... well, they both had two arms and legs. ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
Not like it will matter, because you apparently have such a bias towards Mo that you wouldn't appreciate him if he averaged 25/10, but Mo showed a lot of promise this year. Whenever he got a lot of touches, he could score over 20 points, he rebounded well for certain stretches, and he was always a good playmaker who fit in well in team chemistry. He never once caused a problem and was always a positive influence off the court. On the court, he showed a good playmaking skills, good shooting ability, great effort and hustle, and a lot of heart. He's not the best in some other areas, but he brings a lot of things to the table that few big men do. Even some of the leading Mo bashers, such as BobFinn, I'm sure will admit that he had several stretches during the year that looked very promising. And I never said the word college-- I said before the NBA. Both Yinka and Dream were young, African centers with good athletism, good shotblocking skills, and raw fundamentals before coming to America to play. My point was that despite those simularities, they had very different career paths. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Cat I agree with a lot you say...and I do believe Mo T could develop into exactly what we need from a PF. HOWEVER...I just worry about the way he left the Clippers. Yeah, I know it was the Clips, but he came across TOTALLY as a guy who wanted a huge contract and screw anything else. I just wonder how motivated the guy will have after he gets a contract... I hate to use the Cato comparison...the only reason I mention Cato is the fact that we CANNOT afford to have two players in our front line on huge contracts who don't pan out... For me, Cato's contract unfairly means we HAVE to get the next big contract 100% correct. We simply can't afford to be burdened with two guys who don't work out. Having a front line of underachievers would burden the franchise to the extent we couldn't contend. Also, can you (or someone) please state exactly what they feel Mo is worth? ie...what should a fair offer be? I get the feeling he will NOT accept anything less than about 7M per season...and possibly even expects the max. I hope I am wrong on Mo... I hope for the Rocks sake you are right ------------------
HOWEVER...I just worry about the way he left the Clippers. Yeah, I know it was the Clips, but he came across TOTALLY as a guy who wanted a huge contract and screw anything else. I just wonder how motivated the guy will have after he gets a contract... If you go back and look at the quotes, the majority of those quotes after the Clipper years were made by his agent David Falk. Mo's cases was one of the more documented ones, because Falk totally turned against the Clippers when they didn't sign him for a bigger deal. Falk was the one who wanted the big deal, and Mo went along with him. The only team he had ever been with had treated him like ****. Now that he's in a situation in which he knows the values of loyalty, teamwork, chemistry, etc. It can really change your outlook on a lot of things. He has said nothing but very positive things about his free agency since he joined the Rockets, and he has given a nonstop 100% effort since joining the Rockets, which according to Clipper fans is a complete reversal. Whenever people talk about Steve Francis being a jerk, we always point to what he has done here in Houston, and say that others should give him a chance to show that he isn't what he appeared to be on draft night when he was going to Vancouver. Give Mo that chance as well. He has worked his butt off since joining the Rockets, and has shown no signs of the Cato syndrome. I think Mo will sign for about 6-6.5 million a year. It's about what he deserves. He is a good player with a good chance at getting a lot better, but he isn't perfect at rebounding, and he isn't extremely physical on the offensive end, so I don't think he expects a near max contract. He'll be awarded a decent sized contract, but I don't think he reasonably expects a near max deal. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
Again, I hope not, because you'll miss out on a lot of amazing things due to the possibility that the negative situation could come to fruition again. You have to take some risks to be successful in life. To conclude this rant, championship teams take risks. You don't see the Rockets afraid, do you? You have to take risks to be successful. [/QUOTE] Cat...I couldn't agree more...So, tell me, why don't you want Webber again? Unless you actually believe Mo Taylor is a superior player to Webber, aren't all your arguments against getting Webber fear based? Fear of missing him, and then losing Taylor in the meanwhile...Fear of upsetting team chemistry...fear of discontent over lack of touches...I mean, as you say, there is no eveidence for any of this, just supposition, and you can just as easily suppose the opposite, so why does your (entirely correct) thesis that Championship teams don't play it safe extend to the possibility of adding one of the best plyers in the league who's still in his prime? Your argument was well stated, well thought out, and I couldn't agree with it more, but don't you think you're being a little subjectively selective in how/where you apply your argument? ------------------
I have to agree...when I read the thread title "Championship teams aren't overcautious", I thought The Cat had come to realize that we should give Webber a shot . It's funny because most of the arguments given in favor of signing Mo could be applied to signing Webber even more. ------------------ Rockets' offseason tasks in order of priority: Get rid of Cato under any circumstances. Sign Chris Webber. Re-Sign Hakeem. Re-Sign Moochie and AirBullard. Pick up the Langhi option for another year. Trade for Bo Outlaw and Raef LaFrentz. .....-'-. ../`.....|__ /`....--`-,-` '-|`...o.'<-....[] ..\....._\__).\=` ...C_..`....,_/ .....|.;----' come back with your original name...now that everyone is changing their screen names anyway
I can't speak for Cat, but the reason I'm hesitant about going after Webber is that you can only have so many superstars on a team before chemistry is affected. People already complain about Cat "taking" shots from Francis, but now you have Griffin coming in and throw in Webber to boot? Say that Webber becomes a big time scorer, what about Cat? Or if Cat manages to score what about Francis? And through all of this GRIFFIN isn't getting any shots, or getting a chance to show his worth. That's why I feel comfortable with roleplayers filling holes on a team then going after more superstars. Especially when it could tie up our cap and weaken our bench. ------------------ "Win if you can, lose if you must but always cheat!" - Jesse Ventura [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 01, 2001).]
JAG, There are two sides to that coin. While you have a point, there is as great or greater a risk in not going for Webber. When you don't go for Webber, you're passing up one of the top 15 players in the game for added depth, team chemistry, etc. Is that worth it? In my opinion, yes. But resigning Mo, Dream, and role players isn't playing it safe. We're passing on one of the top players in the game to get these role players, and I'd say that's a pretty big risk in it's own right. You could extend the subject to the Webber situation, but I don't think it's as valid an argument as it would be a Marc Jackson-Kelvin Cato discussion. You're not being cautious in either side of the Webber argument. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited July 01, 2001).]
Actually, I think with Webber, the situation would be clearer for Griffin, in that he would have to accept a learning role in the beginning, and this would be clear from the start. With Taylor, he would possibly outshine him so quickly, that he would become too cocky too soon. Rather have him grow in Webber's shadow for two or three seasons and then he becomes the man. Francis should be fine, because even if he scores a couple points less (which I don't think), he will have more assists, and that is what a point guard really should take pride in and that is what he DOES take pride in. Cat should be fine as well, his game would just change a little bit from all slashing to shooting a few more threes, which should be fine (didn't he have that game where he and Dickerson made like 8 threes each?).
College is before the NBA isn't it? The truth is you can't really demonstrate any part of Mo's game that is promising. Any Rocket could score 20 points if he got enough "touches". Cuttino is certainly proof of that. You want to give Mo credit for never once causing a problem? 98% of the league doesn't cause a problem but we're going to give Mo credit for that? Allllllrighty. Nice job Mo, we appreciate you not acting like a brat. All of these things about great effort, heart, and hustle are so incredibly vague. Does Mo clearly demonstrate any more effort, hustle, or heart than most of the league? Nope. Heart, effort, and hustle are often adjectives used for CBA players. As in, what do you think of Sean Colson? Boy, he sure does have heart, gives great effort, and really hustles. AAAAAAAAAH! ------------------ First the Sopranos and now Eddie Griffin... thank you New Jersey!
There are other things besides college before the NBA... I apologize for not clarifying. And I should've said reasonable touches, not enough. Mo is a very gifted scorer for a big man, and if he got the touches that guys like Chris Webber got, he could score those points. That's one reason I like Mo-- we need a power forward who can create his own shot and be a playmaker, but not one that commands touches all the time. Does Mo clearly demonstrate any more effort, hustle, or heart than most of the league? Nope. That's an opinion, not a fact. He's one of the harder working players on this team and in the league in my opinion. He isn't lazy in any fashion, which most players in the NBA are these days. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. ------------------ EDDIE, EDDIE, EDDIE!!! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! The Mo Taylor Fan Site
It's pointless to argue with someone who makes these kinds of statements. It's blatantly obvious you have no ability to be objective on the subject of Maurice Taylor. I discovered that a while ago, but this statement should've sealed the deal for anyone still "debating" you on this.
