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Certain “highly anticipated” Xbox 360 title filling four discs worth of space

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by RC Cola, Dec 4, 2005.

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RC Cola Member

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http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000903070963

We’d figured as early as February that Microsoft would forgo placing a next-gen optical drive in the Xbox 360 for a myriad of acceptable reasons, but we couldn’t help but keep the nagging issue of disc space from lingering in the back of our minds. From the high-res textures fit for an HDTV to the higher polygon counts befitting a next-gen console, the space available on standard DVDs is suddenly in increasingly short supply. So far we’ve yet to see an Xbox 360 game take up more than a single disc, but if the most recent issue of Game Informer is any indication, Microsoft may soon be sweating their decision to pass up on a next-gen storage format.

The issue takes an in-depth look at all the features of the Xbox 360, and while GI is generally quite taken with the 360’s performance, functionality, and especially its controller, they unearth some unsettling details regarding the console’s diminuitive storage capacity. According to Game Informer, nearly every developer they talked to at X05 expressed difficulties fitting their launch titles onto a single disc. One unnamed yet “highly anticipated” game in particular is said to currently occupy a full four 9Gb DVDs. Elder Scrolls IV immediately jumps to mind [UPDATE: or perhaps not, duuur], but any of those Japanese RPGs that Microsoft is always touting are also likely candidates. Microsoft’s J Allard downplayed the storage issues, citing that improved compression rates in the future will allow much more data to be held on an individual disc, and that the pre-launch crunch forced many current 360 titles to use space far more inefficiently than they would have otherwise.

Microsoft has already hinted that a future add-on may be developed to allow the 360 to handle high-def movies, but that the device would be unrelated to gaming. Should the status quo remain unchanged, that means that Xbox 360 owners will be stuck with standard DVD media until at least the next console generation, circa 2010. And, obviously, just because a title is relegated to multiple discs doesn’t mean that it can’t be a great game—just look at Final Fantasy VII. But in this modern era, will consumers still put up with swapping discs mid-play? Games which are linear, such as Halo, may have little to lose by opting for a multi-disc format, but games which are, er… cubic, such as Grand Theft Auto, may take a significant hit in their ease of playability. All told, did Microsoft make the right decision when choosing the 360’s optical drive? If not, would they risk segmenting their fanbase by releasing a newer, HD-DVD enabled box in the future?
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Ouch...wonder what game it is, assuming this is true. It might not be too bad if it is one of the RPG-style games, ala Final Fantasy, although it would be a bit annoying to a degree. I also find it a bit alarming that this is happening so soon. IIRC, I think most of the multi-disc PS1 games came later on its life, not shortly after launch.

#1 RC Cola, Dec 4, 2005

yipengzhao Member

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wow another great reason to wait for PS3!

#2 yipengzhao, Dec 4, 2005
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Another reason to keep your money out of Micro$oft's hands.

#3 Uprising, Dec 4, 2005
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whats the big deal?

There were multi-disc games on PS1 and PS2, and it really didn't matter.

#4 CriscoKidd, Dec 4, 2005
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I'd be more pissed having to pop in a second disc when watching a movie. For a game, it aint that big of a deal. A minor inconveniece but nothing to keep me from buying a 360.

#5 JunkyardDwg, Dec 4, 2005
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CriscoKidd said:

whats the big deal?

There were multi-disc games on PS1 and PS2, and it really didn't matter.
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No kidding! Who cares?

If the game is great, it shouldn't even be an issue that you have to take 5 seconds to change a disk out probably once every 10+ hours of gameplay.

#6 mogrod, Dec 4, 2005
RC Cola Member

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If this is just for the occasional RPG filled with 10+ hours of hi-def CGI, then it isn't a big deal; however, if games in other genres start needing more than 7.5 GB of space, then there could be problems. Games like GTA, Madden, Tekken, etc., may not quite be the same if disc-swapping is necessary. Of course, I would think developers for those games will be able to stick with just one DVD...but then again, I didn't think any game this early on would need 4 of them; I can't imagine what some games will require in another 5 years. Personally, I'd rather not have games in boxsets if at all possible.

Also, there could be more to this than just disc-swapping. I imagine some developers will do several things to keep their games on one disc. This could lead to longer load times, longer development time, less features, and less overall processing power available since the CPU will be busy decompressing the data. Probably much more of an annoyance to developers than gamers in the end.

And unlike the PS1 and PS2 days, where CDs and DVDs were pretty much the largest format available, this time there is Blu-ray, as well the possibility that Nintendo will go with a ~12GB proprietary disc format (rumor).

#7 RC Cola, Dec 4, 2005

yipengzhao Member

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RC Cola said:

If this is just for the occasional RPG filled with 10+ hours of hi-def CGI, then it isn't a big deal; however, if games in other genres start needing more than 7.5 GB of space, then there could be problems. Games like GTA, Madden, Tekken, etc., may not quite be the same if disc-swapping is necessary. Of course, I would think developers for those games will be able to stick with just one DVD...but then again, I didn't think any game this early on would need 4 of them; I can't imagine what some games will require in another 5 years. Personally, I'd rather not have games in boxsets if at all possible.

Also, there could be more to this than just disc-swapping. I imagine some developers will do several things to keep their games on one disc. This could lead to longer load times, longer development time, less features, and less overall processing power available since the CPU will be busy decompressing the data. Probably much more of an annoyance to developers than gamers in the end.

And unlike the PS1 and PS2 days, where CDs and DVDs were pretty much the largest format available, this time there is Blu-ray, as well the possibility that Nintendo will go with a ~12GB proprietary disc format (rumor).
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So how much does Sony pay you?

#8 yipengzhao, Dec 5, 2005
RC Cola Member

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About 5% more than what they paid their PSP graffiti team:
http://www.secondaryscreening.net/static/archives/2005/11/index.html

Seriously though, that wasn't a "GO SONY/BLU-RAY!" post (especially since I threw in Nintendo as well) as much as it was a "I wish Microsoft would have waited to use HD-DVD/BR/whatever for games" post. Considering the circumstances, I just don't think it was a good idea to stick with DVD for next-gen, especially when you're pushing it as the HD-era. Feel free to explain why that might be wrong of me to think.

#9 RC Cola, Dec 5, 2005
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RC Cola said:

About 5% more than what they paid their PSP graffiti team:
http://www.secondaryscreening.net/static/archives/2005/11/index.html
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Ugh. Yeah, that's....lame.

Anyhow; four CDs would be kinda annoying. Depending on the game, I guess. Having played PC, PS1, and some GC, I'm not too bothered by switching discs, depending on how frequently it has to be done.

#10 Coach AI, Dec 5, 2005
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What do you get when you add sucky software on top of sucky hardware?

XBOX 360.

#11 lalala902102001, Dec 5, 2005
BigM Member

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how much can you fit on one blu-ray disc?

#12 BigM, Dec 5, 2005
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Needing 36 gigs of memory is ridiculous. Some PC harddrives are smaller than that. It has to be a Japanese game this rumor is thinking of.

If they're going with costs, DVDs are cheap cheap cheap, so it's more of a developer issue who, if had a choice, would want to ship harddrives all the time.

Other than the FF or GTA series, I don't see what series need that grotesque and inefficient use of memory. You compress the sound, use real time graphics for most scenes (it's a 360!!!), and use CGI for intros and endings. 80% won't even know the difference...

#13 Invisible Fan, Dec 5, 2005

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Invisible Fan said:

Needing 36 gigs of memory is ridiculous.
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That is true. I hadn't thought about that point, but it does seem kinda pointless. Hell, that's half the hard drive on my last computer.

#14 Coach AI, Dec 5, 2005
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I dont see the big deal with it... If I get a 360 I would buy Elder Scrolls, but the multi disc thing ISNT a selling point for me.. All the resident evil games I play on GC have multi discs.. It's not like every hour or so you're going to need to swap discs because then I could see it pissing me off, but around 10 hours of play (3+ weeks for me) isnt bad..

#15 Davidoff, Dec 5, 2005
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My guess is Oblivion.

#16 Preston27, Dec 5, 2005
RC Cola Member

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Invisible Fan said:

Needing 36 gigs of memory is ridiculous. Some PC harddrives are smaller than that. It has to be a Japanese game this rumor is thinking of.
Click to expand...

Other than the FF or GTA series, I don't see what series need that grotesque and inefficient use of memory. You compress the sound, use real time graphics for most scenes (it's a 360!!!), and use CGI for intros and endings. 80% won't even know the difference...
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Here's a quote from Marc Rein of Epic, an American developer that is probably TRYING to stay away from CGI and stick with real-time to show off their engine:
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...eogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=125925

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we're going to fit them on DVD9's I don't know, they'll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we're going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks. So, online isn't really the best option in some instances.
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Not 36 GB, but still about 3 DVD's for an American-developed, CGI-less (or something like that) action/FPS game. And if the original report is true, then nearly every developer has expressed difficulties fitting their launch titles onto a single disc. Considering how much compression is done today without HD-content, it won't be easy to just find some new compression technique that will keep the games on one disc. Just a guess, but imagine a game like MGS4 and/or GT5 will use Blu-ray, and both of those tend to stay away from CGI graphics. I think most of the SOE games (Champions series) were pretty big as well (like ~6GB IIRC).

GriffinFan said:

My guess is Oblivion.
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The article rules out Oblivion. Given Marc Reins comments from above, could be Gears of War.

BigM said:

how much can you fit on one blu-ray disc?
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About 25GB single-layer, and ~50GB dual-layer. Last I heard though, the DL discs might be having some issues and won't be heavily pushed until a little later after the SL discs (early 06 for SL to late 06 for DL).

#17 RC Cola, Dec 5, 2005
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they should have made the Xbox 360 with a 6 disc changer.

#18 steddinotayto, Dec 5, 2005

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Invisible Fan said:

Needing 36 gigs of memory is ridiculous.
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First rule of computing : you never have enough memory.

This comment is cracking me up because I still remember in 1997 I bought a 7 gig hard drive and several of the developers I worked with said I was nuts - what the hell are you going to need 7 gigs of HD space for??? I think that was around the time Baldur's Gate was released and occupied about 1 gig of HD space IIRC.

#19 Dr of Dunk, Dec 5, 2005
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Why in the hell would someone that can afford an HDTV try and watch an HD DVD on a freaking gaming console in the first place? This is far from a problem, and not an issue at all... the games that will require multiple discs won't be a big deal, it never has been since the days of Sega CD. All large storage discs do is let the developers write sloppy code and get away with it... I like giving developers constraints, otherwise you'll have a bug infested game and slow loader like Battlefield 2.

#20 Svpernaut, Dec 5, 2005

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