Who would you draft with the 1st pick if both Carr or Vick? For me I'll have to go with Vick - I mean this guy is a superstar 1 of a kind player in the making. Carr is good but I dont think he'll be a good as Marino, Aikman, Farve, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning when he retires. There shouldnt be anymore excuse for Carr - I mean this team is in its 3rd yr already and is one of the highest playroll team in the nfl so is not like we have a bunch of bad players. If you guys heard excuse from Detriot on why Harrington isn't playing good, you guys would say the same thing - "Yeah Whatever" Vick hands down he's a "Playmaker"
I would take Vick based on now. But you can't say Carr doesn't have any excuses. The guy has no Offensive line at all for 3 years. He also has a crappy Offensive Coordinator that limits all his big play ability in favor of conservitive run calling. When we get a O-Line and running back that is consistant i think Carr will settle in just fine.
Athletically I would have to go with Vick. However, the list of superstar QB's listed the only one I think Carr has the potential to be like is Aikman.
at this point, Carr...for all the reasons mentioned above. i've beaten this horse to death, but i don't WANT my QB running the ball 10-12 times a game. he won't be my QB very long if he does that, because he'll spend most of his career on the sidelines injured.
Vick is the superior athlete Carr is the superior QB. Does Vick look better right now? Gee I wonder why, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that he was drafted by an established team that had years worth of drafts? If Carr would have been drafted by an established team you'd see the same effects that you see with the Falcons or the Steelers this year. Instead he has been forced to grow with an expansion team that's had a different starting RB every year, virtually no OL and an inconsistent D. Carr will bring championships Vick just brings hype.
Without Vick's injury history, this would be a no-brainer. But the guy has not yet proven that he can stay healthy. I don't hold Vick's running ability against him. If anything, I find it a huge plus. I've never seen Cunningham back in his running days, so I dont' know if he's better. But Vick's running ability is just amazing. His passing ability is questionable. The Falcons have a great running game, forcing most opposing teams to stack 8 in the box. So Vick doesn't have to deal with as many pass defenders as Carr. He also can work off the playaction A LOT more than Carr. Yet despite all this, he throws for a pretty low %. And you can't blame his receivers either, as they are pretty nice as a group. Dunn is also a great pass catcher out of the backfield. Had Vick came out a year later and I got to choose for the Texans as the GM, I'd pick Vick over Carr just slightly. I think his combination of speed and throwing power is just too much to pass up. Even if he's an injury risk.
meh -- interesting points... i would have picked vick over carr out of college as well. but i think that's skewed a bit. vick was absolutely PERFECT for the college game where you can run like crazy. in the NFL, it turns out those huge guys are not only bigger, they're faster too. like you, i think vick's running ability opens things up for him. frankly, i'm not sure he'd be an NFL QB without it. having said that, i think it works against him in two ways....one, he seems to look to run way too early. that diminishes his ability to progress as an NFL passer. second, he is going to get smashed over and over and over again. there's a reason why rules are in place to protect QBs in this league. it's just a different mindset...the only comparable QB we've seen is Cunningham, who had to develop into a pocket passer. Cunningham's arm was WAAAYYY better than Vick's though. Much better. He was much more complete than Vick is, though Vick is the better runner of the two, I think. When the legs start slowing up...and they will...the value of Vick will diminish quickly. We'll see then if he can adapt to being a pocket passer. I think developing that is part of what the Falcons had in mind when establishing the West Coast offense. But if you can't put up passing numbers in the West Coast offense...well...that doesn't speak real well of your ability to throw the football.
Again... Well, I said Carr last time and I still do...With Vick's mobility, he's more prone to injury (i.e. Last Season)...
Flat out wrong? Vick's completion rate is ranked #22 in the NFL among QBs with enough pass attempts to make it into the ESPN.COM rankings. I think that makes the comment "pretty low %"(in comparison to Carr, incidently, not league average) quite warranted.
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | 1985 phi | 6 | 34 81 42.0 548 6.8 1 8 | 29 205 0 | | 1986 phi | 15 | 111 209 53.1 1391 6.7 8 7 | 66 540 5 | | 1987 phi | 12 | 223 406 54.9 2786 6.9 23 12 | 76 505 3 | | 1988 phi | 16 | 301 560 53.8 3808 6.8 24 16 | 93 624 6 | | 1989 phi | 16 | 290 532 54.5 3400 6.4 21 15 | 104 621 4 | | 1990 phi | 16 | 271 465 58.3 3466 7.5 30 13 | 118 942 5 | | 1991 phi | 1 | 1 4 25.0 19 4.8 0 0 | 0 0 0 | | 1992 phi | 15 | 233 384 60.7 2775 7.2 19 11 | 87 549 5 | | 1993 phi | 4 | 76 110 69.1 850 7.7 5 5 | 18 110 1 | | 1994 phi | 14 | 265 490 54.1 3229 6.6 16 13 | 65 288 3 | | 1995 phi | 7 | 69 121 57.0 605 5.0 3 5 | 21 98 0 | | 1997 min | 6 | 44 88 50.0 501 5.7 6 4 | 19 127 0 | | 1998 min | 16 | 259 425 60.9 3704 8.7 34 10 | 32 132 1 | | 1999 min | 7 | 124 200 62.0 1475 7.4 8 9 | 10 58 0 | | 2000 dal | 6 | 74 125 59.2 849 6.8 6 4 | 23 89 1 | | 2001 bal | 9 | 54 89 60.7 573 6.4 3 2 | 14 40 1 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ | TOTAL | 166 | 2429 4289 56.6 29979 7.0 207 134 | 775 4928 35 | +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+ Those are Cunningham's statistics. Vick is on pace to be a better passer than Cunningham already. And that guy won two MVPs.
That's the problem with using average. You're factoring in a lot of horrible QBs(like the ones on the Bears) as well as 2nd stringers who come in for injuries. As for learning a new system, that should be more than offset by his incredible running game and all the perks that comes with it. Vick usually has all day in the backfield to throw, and he still does a lot of scrambling despite the time.
