OK, if salaries are equal: Rice for Shandon is a good trade. I believe anyone who says otherwise can't get the salary differences out of their mind. Also, I'm not really for or against this trade. I do cringe heavily at the salary; I love defense, but know that it really starts from in the lane. So, I just want to put some things into a GM perspective. I mean, I'm sitting here saying WTF? too. How does this make sense? <b>The GM questions are</b>: is one big contract worse on your salary than a $5.5m and a $4.5m? Further, are two average players going to create wins more than Rice can? Who is more replaceable over time. Obviously, you can add one average salary player per year to your team with exceptions, but rarely do you have cap space for the single big contracts. So, let's start with some facts. <ul><li><b>Rocket's Fact:</b> Making this trade or not, we will never see cap room again after next summer. <li><b>Rocket's Fact #2</b> If you sign Shandon, you have only another average salary contract to purchase. So what? Doesn't seem to be one out there, does there? <li><b>CBAs Fact:</b> Being $4.5m under the cap is useless for signing free agents, you must be under by more than the mid-level exception to put you in a better bargaining position.</ul> I used to think we could clear $7m in caproom next year. But I no longer really believe that. We would have a little change this season to use in trades. <b>But do you wait?</b> <b>we are finding this Summer that we can't sign Shandon AND a center</b> Let's assume that Shandon wants $5.5m like the articles say. That leaves $4.5m to use before signing Moochie and Bullard, and likely only $2m after that. What are you getting for that??? Do you save it for seasonal trades? I think it is unrealistic to immediately say, why didn't we sign Jackson or White? You assume we didn't try. It looks like Shandon is asking for too much. <b>If Shandon is asking too much, we have $10m to spend by dropping him</b> With $10m to spend, do you really use that on one average salary player over one proven scorer. Do you take Jackson for $6m and nothing else but Moochie? Do you really think you are going to find two $5m players to help. Does signing two $5m players hurt the cap more than one guy for $10m? No! <b>CD asked himself Use it or Lose it...and do it NOW</b> To me in making sense of this Rice deal (and I'm not a huge Rice fan), is Rudy and CD are saying to themselves: Use it or Lose it. Can you really wait, like I've been saying? Personally, I'd rather use it on Rice than two average salary contract player. The guy can still win games in the 4th Q. The salary numbers are irrelevant, imo, if you consider that the only other thing you could do is purchase two average salaries instead. The trade is not a disaster....we are simply going to have to do a pure trade for a center someday. Fancy that.
Okay Crispee, lets assume that both rumored Rocket Trades happen: Walt for White Anderson for Rice Do we have to add any additional players to make these work? My only take on this is that Anderson is not an effective 3 (no offense) and would probably not accept a backup role to Cuttino, and Rice has a career of being a top notch scorer at the 3. We dont need Walt, and White can where high heels and play center in the west (lol). Then McCoy could be another backup possibility, but it's looking like we might be getting rid of Collier, I mean who else is under contract that could be included to NY. I know that Rudy would love to have Harrington back, but KT salaries do not match up? I still cant imagine that a 3rd trade is not in the works to send CATO to chicago for Brad Miller, etc....
In a move designed to make Crispee doubt himself, I will have to agree with his post 100%. Rice makes the Rockets a better basketball team this year. His outside shooting will help open up the lanes for the slashers, and make it much harder for the opponents to abandon their man to man defense. Rice will provide a post up game that left with Hakeem. The Rockets don't have a quality NBA 3 right now anyway. Eddie is too young, Tmo is too inexperienced, and Langhi is destined to play in the Phillipines when David Wood retires. I don't see a big man available that is better than Cato, and I don't see any better option for the Rockets. Do we really want to sign SA for 5 or 6 years, when we can lose Rice's salary in three years?
Damn good post Crispee. It's great to have your GM insights in threads like these. Personally, I'm not as thrilled about obtaining Rice's contract so much as losing Shandon's athleticism and obtaining him in his later years. However, with the new rules changes, his proven outside scoring ability will be forced to keep defense's honest and will give the Rocket's the "inside-outside" attack the Rocket's have been known for. Only this time without our dominant center. Carroll, LES, RUDY... KUDOS for making a statement not only to us, but to all the other potential free agents in the coming years. OUR ROCKETS ARE FOR REAL! Jack
If this is true, then I can live with the Rice deal, especially if the Walt for Jahidi White deal goes through. Trading Shandon Anderson and Walt Williams for a big time scorer (and Rice can still get it done), and a banger and enforcer in the paint would be genuis. Think about it, if the Washington deal happens it would be Shandon and Walt for White and Rice. Not a bad deal considering our cap space will be gone!
Heypee, 1. Do you think Rice makes the Rockets better this year than Hakeem would have? I don't. So why not spend the money to keep Hakeem? This moves seems to go completely against the logic they used during the negotiations with Dream. 2. Although Rice may make the team better this year is he really going to have a positive impact or even be around when this team is ready to be a serious conteder? If not then why take minutes away from a player that will likely be where when we are a serious contender? 3. Rices contract is not only big but 3yrs. What if he is not here next year due to injuries or retirement? then we would not only have Cato's huge contract to work around but Rices. 4. What about locker room distractions like Rice's loud mouth wife? I don't think Rice left L.A. because they had a better option. He was a locker room distraction even during the NBA finals. 5. With Rices age he is primarily a spot up shooter. Does he really give us any more than Bull? I just don't understand this trade at all. We need someone else at the 5 not the 3. And it was you that told me earlier that it might be good to save some cap room for a possible trade latter in the season. While 4.5m under the cap might not help us in free agency it could help us deal someone with a lower salery for someone with a bigger salery.
Can we please get off the Hakeem situation, I think I am going to puke if I hear one more comment about it!!!!
"Personally, I'd rather use it on Rice than two average salary contract player. " Cripee, I see your point about using your cap space now rather than using it, but I dont think Rice himself is much more than an average player. He averager 12 points on 44% shooting. I would rather spend it on 2 average players. I see your point that there may be no 2 average players available, but in my opinion, at least Shandons trade value would have to be more than Rice's. Shandon would be more desirable at 5-6 mil over Rice who makes 8+, then 9+, and then 10+........plus look at our line up........ white/cato mo shandon/eddie cat steve this lineup can put enough points on the board and give u decent D, even w/o white....... white/ cato mo rice/eddie cat steve this lineup can definitely put points on the board as well, but how much more than the lineup above....wouldnt u just want to keep the first lineup since they have been playing together for 2 years already, have more D, have enough offense, and have at least decent trade value.........
No, I don't either! I was expecting this question. It sounds arguable on the surface, but it really isn't; you know that. Hakeem wanted out. And you do know that increasing pay substantially for Hakeem (Rice/Robinson numbers) would have eliminated our ability to sign Mo' to the $6.4m he started at....and of course, it definitely would have meant that Shandon cannot be offered a contract. This real question about Hakeem that you are not addressing: Is Hakeem at a higher salary offer with Mo but totally losing Shandon better than, Mo and $10m to use on Shandon and/or another free agent? At the time Hakeem left, CD could not put a name to that "free agent," like you argument has the luxury of doing. Without really knowing what offers you'd get, keeping the $10m is arguably worth it. This is a moot point. You fail to place Francis' $11m contract into the mix. After next summer, there is no capspace. Besides, it sounds like you want to spend all the room anyhow. You will have no capspace greater than a Mid-Level exception next yr, the way the salaries are playing out so far. Further, don't count on salary cap room after next summer anyhow, Rice, Cato or not. As for your point about stockpiling average players, you can still do that every year with the Mid-Level exception....how did we get Shandon and Mo to begin with. <b>Spending precious cap room on average players is a waste, imo...a huge waste.</b>
I choose none of the above... Don't sign Shandon. Let Walt's contract expire next year. Start Cato this year and make him play till he fouls out every game. IMO, he either plays 40-45mpg or he fouls out. He needs to start earning some of that dough. Sign Mochie for $2m/year, for 3 years. Sign Bullard for $1.3m/year or let him walk. It's time to trim the fat. Use it or lose it doesn't work with me. Get Rice because we can't get anyone else is a lame philosophy. I say play Griffin, Morris, and Langhi and let them learn. We may lose more games this year, but if they are the future, let's get the ball rolling. Our team is young and we have locked up the nucleus for 5-6 years. Let's start now. Stop grasping for veteran leadership and build it from within. If you need to, sign a Pig Miller or Chucky Brown, then do it. Go ahead and offer Jelani a 1 year $2m contract. The key here is that you never know what could happen. A trade might come around getting us exactly who we want that is facilitated by us having cap flexibilty. I sure don't want to be telling Raef next summer that we already spent our cap on Glen Rice. We'll just tell all the FA's next year that we decided to use it rather than lose it. I haven't done the math, but if we are $10m under the cap right now by renouncing our exceptions and Shandon, then couldn't we be $10m under next year? Walt's $5m contract will be up, and even with everyone's salary increase's and the cap increase, I just can't figure out why we won't have any cap space. Perhaps someone else can fill me in.
crispee.. great post. i was about to post something similiar but didnt' know the exact numbers etc and wasn''t sure how to phrase it all. you always seem to be able to put into words what many of us are thinking but aren't sure exactly how to word it
RocketFan, I don't always say it like others want to ... thx for the kind words Thx Jack_Hammer....nice name. This is why I'm so obsessed with reading a 250 page boring legal document (the CBA), so I can get closer to understanding WTF is going through CD's mind. Rocketsauce, Ahh, the Chicago Bulls approach, 'eh. Your use of capspace is the only other thing that works, imo. It still is a Lose it or Use it proposition, though. You are just choosing to use it only a center, at the expense of losing games this year since no one is available. You also assume that a average workhorse center can't work if you surround him with big time scorers. You also assume we can't work a trade in years to come for a decent center....you know like packaging Mo' and Moochie, or some other soon-to-be duplicated talent. Anyhow, I agree with your way as well. I just don't think the coaches want to go that route though. They are going to fill out a roster this Summer, it looks like to me.
RocketSauce said it all- Why panic? Stay with the youth- Rebuild-Build Chemistry- Let Shandon go- But if we do this trade I would like to see Griffin get minutes at the 5. Of all our center options I like Griffin- He's better than Cato and Collier. He is a nautal shot blocker and he will hustle and rebound. I thought that Griffin could play the 3 but after the summer leagues and hearing him talk- he is suited for the 4. But I think for our situation he could play the 5. Also he is definately a low post player, not a perimeter guy.
Crispee, Wasn't there a post by OP or someone in the know, that Rudy & CD were somewhat at odds on how to attack the Zone Defense? If I remember correctly, it was Rudy that wanted to attack the Zone with offense, as opposed to defending it with defense. It would seem that these moves indicate that Rudy won that discussion.
