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Cap Flexibility and Asset Collection have to go!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Carl Herrera, Feb 21, 2015.

  1. Jpripper88

    Jpripper88 Member

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    I think much of this breaks down to what the goal is and what you would rather cheer for. Do you want two "superstars" and consistent competitiveness with no chance at a championship? Or, are you ok with the chance of not being very good for 2-3 years if it gives you a real shot at a championship?

    Personally I would always take the latter and think the Rockets are sacrificing that because they are scared to become a borderline playoff team or need to rebuild again in a handful of years.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I'm not advocating for the "bottom line" approach...I'm merely saying it's prevalent in pro sports...big time.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Over the last 10 years? Or over the last 18 years?

    Over the last 18, I think NOLA is the only other WC team to have only won 1 playoff series.

    In the past 10, there are around 5 WC teams like that.
     
  4. a711

    a711 Member

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    Is that what you REALLY think?

    Morey pretty much proved this incorrect when he didn't match Parsons and lock in that team that had no chance to win a 'ship.

    He went into this season with a huge risk in order to keep the window alive to improve the team SO that it could be a championship team.


    intellectual dishonesty at its finest
     
  5. rox4lyf

    rox4lyf Member

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    Morey is an elite GM, one of the best in sports. But to circle jerk at the "fact" that he is the definitive best is the league is beyond homerish. His asset management and foresight is unparalleled but I do believe his hubris can at times get the better of him. Selecting the right coach is a big part of General Management. I still do not believe McHale is that man.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    LOL..I've run my own business for the last 15 years. My business is advising other businesses. I'm the one who made the point about it being a bottom line business....

    again, I'm not saying it's a smart approach or even the right approach. We could argue that point all day. I'm merely saying that pro sports franchises in the US are run that way more often than not...overwhelmingly so. Teams fire coaches continually, regardless of process....at the end of the day, they're judged on whether they win or not. Whether that's fair or smart is not the point I was making.
     
  7. a711

    a711 Member

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    I think GM's should be judged on their process and how many 'DUMB' mistakes they make. If you make em, you gotta go.

    Coaches should be judged more by winning/losing.
     
  8. LikeMike

    LikeMike Contributing Member

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    Thanks! So, in the time of Morey only 5 teams hat the kind of success people here expect. So 11 teams should fire their GM? Plus, Morey got a team with 2 broken down superstars and no high draft picks. And we were pretty close to a couple of more series wins...

    And to those wanting to mortgage our future for a real shot to win a championship - that will happen if Morey can't succeed otherwise. We have one more guaranteed year of Harden and Howard. Morey won't let that go without a strong 3d piece.
     
  9. kturner77

    kturner77 Member

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    THANK YOU! It gets quite annoying reading post after post about how Morey made a mistake, the Rockets didn't get Dragic, or some other random guy who happens to play the point guard position. IT'S A LONG SEASON. We don't know every conversation or communication between the Rockets, agents and players. It's true that as fans we are going to want to see the team do well, but not one of us could actually sit at a GM desk and run a team. The least we can do is try to make statements outside of total ignorance and make some sense.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I must have been unclear...only 5 have won 1 playoff series or less...not the other way around. 11 have won 1 or more playoff series over that time period.
     
  11. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Ok, so what word would you use to describe the Knicks' last 15 years? How about the Wizards'? The Bobcats? The list goes on and on and on. At least the Rockets have kept things interesting almost every season.

    On a somewhat tangential note, I don't see much difference between winning one playoff series in 15 years and winning seven of them in those same 15 years. There are three levels of success that interest me:

    1. Being a scrub ass team (don't want)
    2. Being a decent to "good" team (not my favorite thing, but at least the team is watchable and fun)
    3. Being in contention for a title (top 5-6 team in the league).
    4. Winning a title

    The Rockets have been at least at level 2 and often at level 3 almost every single one of the last 15 years. Level 4 is very, VERY difficult to achieve, but I think we're doing more to reach that level than the VAST majority of teams in the NBA, and I don't think we're very far from getting there.
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Whoa...over the last 15 seasons, the Rockets have made the playoffs 7 times. We've failed to make the playoffs in the majority of the last 15 seasons..in a sport where more teams make the playoffs than don't.

    Perhaps your defintion under #2 is a little more open than what I'd call a "good" team....but I have a difficult time suggesting that the Rockets have been among the better franchises in the NBA over that time period given the facts that:

    1. most years, they failed to make the playoffs; and

    2. when they did make the playoffs they managed to win exactly one playoff series.

    They're my team...they're from Houston, and I"m not going anywhere. But I'm not going to give them a pass and say they've been a good franchise over that time period. They haven't.

    I do think their future is brighter than the last 15 years though...as long as they can keep Harden here.
     
  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    ZOMG!, in the last 20 years the Rockets have won 12 playoff series and 2 titles.

    This selective statistic bull**** is old and tired.

    Right now the Rockets are better situated, now and going forward, than all but maybe 2-3 teams.
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Honestly, 20 years is a long time. I hardly see that as being selective. It's half of my life, exactly. It's nearly half of the Rockets existence in Houston. I'm not talking about them being unable to win another ring in that time span...I get how difficult that is. I'm talking about just avoiding being among the very worst playoff performers for nearly 2 decades.

    I'm thrilled with the addition of Harden. He's unreal, and I'm with you on this...he's the type of player you keep building around hoping to get it right...because there is some unit out there that he can pull to a ring. I am convinced he will have this team in the Finals again at some point.
     
  15. Willis25

    Willis25 Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. apollo33

    apollo33 Member
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    I don't agree Morey's obsession with his Ass and Cap either, but I don't think Dragic wanted to sign here, therefore Morey didn't offer much for him
     
  17. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Ummmm..they won 2 titles and went to the Finals 4 times. Ii'd be good with that. They did in about a 4 year span what our Rockets have done in their entire franchise history.
     
  18. napalm06

    napalm06 John Lucas University™
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    Agreed, but we'd be insane to hold our front office to that standard. They did it via a method that no GM would ever be able to intentionally replicate. Collusion by three top stars, essentially. Miami was just the fortunate beneficiary of Lebron's shenanigans.
     
  19. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Since 1994-95:

    Atlanta
    -8 years missed playoffs
    -12 playoff appearances
    -6 first round exits
    -6 Conference Semifinals exits

    Boston
    -9 years missed playoffs
    -11 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 1 NBA title

    Brooklyn/New Jersey
    -11 years missed playoffs
    -9 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -4 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 0 NBA titles

    Charlotte(2004/05-present)
    -8 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits

    Chicago
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -13 playoff appearances
    -6 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -3 Finals appearances; 3 NBA titles

    Cleveland
    -12 years missed playoffs
    -8 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    Dallas
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -13 playoff appearances
    -6 first round exits
    -4 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -2 Finals appearances; 1 NBA title

    Denver
    -9 years missed playoffs
    -11 playoff appearances
    -10 first round exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Detroit
    -8 years missed playoffs
    -12 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits
    -4 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 1 NBA title

    Golden State
    -17 years missed playoffs
    -3 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits

    Houston
    -8 years missed playoffs
    -12 playoff appearances
    -8 first round exits
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -1 Finals appearance; 1 NBA title

    Indiana
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -15 playoff appearances
    -6 first round exits
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -6 Conference Finals exits
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    LA Clippers
    -15 years missed playoffs
    -5 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits

    LA Lakers
    -2 years missed playoffs
    -18 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -6 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -7 Finals appearances; 5 NBA titles

    Memphis/Vancouver(1995/96-present)
    -12 years missed playoffs
    -7 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Miami
    -4 years missed playoff
    -16 playoff appearances
    -7 first round exits
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -5 Finals appearance; 3 NBA titles

    Milwaukee
    -12 years missed playoffs
    -8 playoff appearances
    -7 first round exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Minnesota
    -12 years missed playoffs
    -8 playoff appearances
    -7 first round exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    New Orleans(2002/03-present)
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -5 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    New York
    -9 years missed playoffs
    -11 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -5 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    Oklahoma City/Seattle Sonics
    -8 year missed playoffs
    -12 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -4 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 0 NBA titles

    Orlando
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -13 playoff appearances
    -8 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 0 NBA titles

    Philadelphia
    -10 years missed playoffs
    -10 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -4 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    Phoenix
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -13 playoff appearances
    -7 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits
    -3 Conference Finals exits

    Portland
    -7 years missed playoffs
    -13 playoff appearances
    -10 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits

    Sacramento
    -11 years missed playoffs
    -9 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    San Antonio
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -19 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -6 Conference Semifinals exits
    -4 Conference Finals exits
    -6 Finals appearances; 5 NBA titles

    Toronto(1995/96-present)
    -13 years missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    Utah
    -6 years missed playoffs
    -14 playoff appearances
    -6 first round exits
    -4 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 0 NBA titles

    Washington
    -14 years missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits


    14 teams with > 8 years missing the playoffs
    Boston, Brooklyn, Cleveland, Denver, Golden State, LA Clippers, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, New York, Philadelphia, Sacramento, Toronto & Washington. | Atlanta, Charlotte, Detroit, Houston & Oklahoma City each have 8.

    10 teams with > 12 playoff appearances
    Chicago, Dallas, Indiana, LA Lakers, Miami, Orlando, Phoenix, Portland, San Antonio & Utah. | Atlanta, Detroit, Houston & Oklahoma City each have 12.

    2 teams with > 8 first round exits
    Denver & Portland | Houston & Orlando each have 8.

    14 teams with > 2 Conference Semifinals exits
    Atlanta, Brooklyn, Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, LA Clippers, LA Lakers, New York, Oklahoma City, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Sacramento, San Antonio & Utah. | Boston, Golden State, Houston, Indiana, Miami & Washington each have 2.

    10 teams with > 1 Conference Finals exit
    Boston, Detroit, Indiana, Miami, Oklahoma City, Orlando, Phoenix, Portland, San Antonio & Utah. | Chicago, Cleveland, Dallas, Denver, Houston, LA Lakers, Memphis, Milwaukee, Minnesota, New York & Sacramento each have 1.

    10 teams with > 1 Finals appearance
    Boston, Brooklyn, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, LA Lakers, Miami, Oklahoma City, San Antonio & Utah. | Cleveland, Houston, Indiana, New York & Philadelphia each have 1.

    4 teams with > 1 NBA title
    Chicago, LA Lakers, Miami & San Antonio. | Boston, Dallas, Detroit & Houston each have 1.

    Since 2007-08:

    Atlanta
    -0 years missed playoffs
    -7 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -3 Conference Semifinals exits

    Boston
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 1 NBA title

    Brooklyn/New Jersey
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits

    Charlotte
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits

    Chicago
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Cleveland
    -4 years missed playoffs
    -3 playoff appearances
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Dallas
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -4 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -1 Finals appearance; 1 NBA title

    Denver
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -5 first round exits
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Detroit
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Finals exits

    Golden State
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    Houston
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    Indiana
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits

    LA Clippers
    -4 years missed playoffs
    -3 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits

    LA Lakers
    -1 year missed playoffs
    -6 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits
    -3 Finals appearances; 2 NBA titles

    Memphis
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -1 Conference Finals exit

    Miami
    -1 year missed playoff
    -6 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -4 Finals appearance; 2 NBA titles

    Milwaukee
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits

    Minnesota
    -7 years missed playoffs

    New Orleans
    -4 years missed playoffs
    -3 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    New York
    -4 years missed playoffs
    -3 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    Oklahoma City/Seattle Sonics
    -2 year missed playoffs
    -5 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    Orlando
    -2 years missed playoffs
    -5 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -1 Conference Finals exit
    -1 Finals appearance; 0 NBA titles

    Philadelphia
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exits

    Phoenix
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exits
    -1 Conference Finals exits

    Portland
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -3 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit

    Sacramento
    -7 years missed playoffs

    San Antonio
    -0 year missed playoffs
    -7 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
    -2 Conference Finals exits
    -2 Finals appearances; 1 NBA titles

    Toronto
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits

    Utah
    -3 years missed playoffs
    -4 playoff appearances
    -2 first round exits
    -2 Conference Semifinals exits

    Washington
    -5 years missed playoffs
    -2 playoff appearances
    -1 first round exit
    -1 Conference Semifinals exit
     
    #259 J.R., Feb 22, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota KPJ Warrior - He deserves our support
    Supporting Member

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    Look the only years that matter are the ones that MOREY has been the GM - that is what he will be judged on, not the years Hakeem was here.

    Come on...lol.

    DD
     

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