Thanks to all the SLC scouts who started the game reports. (Nathan, I got a ticket for any game this year for you.) Can we set aside trades and drafts for one thread maybe...in July...can we do it??? DoD, yell at me through email if you insist. There is no doubt how Rudy intends to use the rookies....we need to preserve the awesome threat of the pick for Francis at 3-pt land. Who remembers Bullard starting and scoring 18 points in the 1st quarter running picks with francis out high...can we all say...Pat Riley is an idiot for doubling Francis so tightly in his January run to NBA Player of the Month (for only like the 5th time in 4 yrs for a rookie). Who remembers the wing offense catapulting Walt to double digits...so easy in April. Langhi clearly has a high, quick release. What really showed is his ability to maneuver for the classic shot while the defender is on the wrong foot. Langhi can and will get his shot off....forget his size for the moment. What is the primary play from last year that Rudy insisted the oppenent stop first?.... ...anyone the very high pick for Francis to get him to the wing or allow an open shot for the picker. To make that successful, the picker had to have a great shot from 18-22 feet. 8 minutes into the game the picker becomes a Reggie Miller running weakside around two picks....bam...Bullard with 18 in the FIRST QUARTER. Langhi will get his chance early this year....and he is NOT a Bullard clone. Think...quick release on the move...baby!!! that is NOT bullard. game on!!! who's got tickets! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited July 26, 2000).]
Interesting post. I for one am not worried about the draft picks we have, although I don't feel they will make us a lot better. I do think they will make us better though. BTW, My god you have a lot of posts! ------------------ [This message has been edited by UTrocket (edited July 26, 2000).]
Welcome back partner, I think Collier, and more specifically Langhi, are going to thrive in the Rocks system. I think Rudy got a taste of how well it works at the end of the season. Now he'll have all offseason and a draft to make it really work. I'm not predicting the Finals or anything, but at least we'll be an exciting team that can hit the jumper. How many years have we been waiting for that...... ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
UTrocket, were you not here those two days when HP pulled an IROC-it to get to 1,999? ------------------ Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
HeyPee, Welcome back. I remember one of your posts earlier saying we wouldn't hear from you much during the off-season. I assume you have been lurking some. Good point about Langhi. I think the only thing that could keep him down is confidence, and I do believe he has it. There's plenty of new guys here who have yet to be engaged in HeyPee banter. ------------------
This Langhi looks like he can play. High pick and Roll with the Bull was a main part of the offense with Francis last year.I think Langhi could do it a whole lot better. Becasue he's obviously better than Bull.(Even though Bull kicks ass) ------------------
good to see a heypartner post. Are you done with your work stuff? Are you back? I am happy with the players the Rockets got in the draft. Big men who can hit open jumpers. Mobley and Francis can create all day, but they aren't going to pass the ball if there is no one to hit the open jumpers. These rookies could open up the offense and make it much more effective. But they need to keep in mind that they are NOT just out there to play offense. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
My partner !!! Welcome back !! I do agree that the way he sets up defenders to clear some space for himself..OFF the ball...is quite impressive. Many players work when they have the ball, but few UNDERSTAND that moving without the ball is just as important. I love the way he plays, he seems to be quick, athletic and intelligent. These are all the intangibles you need to succeed in the NBA. DaDakota ------------------
I think Langhi will add the incentive of BLOWING BY a Rushing Defender. [Not saying a break neck speed but definately make the defender think twice] This could crush defensive rotations. Collier and Cato could provide a rotation that will make us Diverse I have to hear more on Collier's game Rocket River ------------------
Rudy is busy designing a play called "1-shake" It is an Iso for Langhi ------------------ "Don't think twice, its allright"
If nothing else, this season will be fun to watch. I don't know how successful so many perimeter plays like the ones you're talking about can be without a consistent threat down low.....but it'll be fun to see Rudy try. ------------------ "I'll take a Dream Shake for two, please."
Gascon, They were succesful running that offense at the end of the year because CB4 was on IR and Dream might as well have been. A threat down low? Francis is that threat because once he has shed his defender on the high pick and the defender of the picker is left in the dust, Steve has 20' of open space to the basket. Since the Rockets were setting that high pick outside the three point line, how do the new zoning rules from last season apply if at all? Can other teams zone at all on that play? With Langhi's ability to handle the ball, that should make it even harder for other teams to double Francis. How does Dan's foot speed, athleticism and ball handling compare to Walt's? Mango ps where is SPG? ------------------ 1. Put new topics in the proper forum 2. Use clear wording for new threads 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult The Serious Police are watching Donate Blood or be assimilated! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited July 26, 2000).]
The pick and roll will likely be a staple of this new Rockets team. It will really open things up when players like Collier and Langhi set a screen up high on the left side of the floor for Francis then just roll to the left corner and let the play develop. When both are on the floor with Francis, the lane will really open up as one of them (likely Collier) will be able to screen and roll to the left side of the floor, and Langhi sets up away from the ball on the right side. This is very similar to one of the sets Utah employs where Stockton-Malone screen and roll on the left side, and Russell sets up on the right corner for the 3 pt shot. Once Francis gets more consistent on his mid range shot as he was showing some last yr, this play could really become dynamite. A similar type of play can be run for Cuttino (if he re-signs)except on the opposite side of the floor since he is a lefty. Rudy T has really concentrated on drafting and going after players that fit this system. Personally, I think a low post threat that can draw a double team on a consistent basis would add another dimension to this team. This is why I am so interested in acquiring Marcus Fizer even at the expense of Kelvin Cato. Fizer possesses the capability to draw the double team and is a very good passer which will be effective considering the players on this team are very good at moving w/o the ball. When your offense has so many options to it, you become very difficult to defend. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Good to seeya HeyPartner. Nice post, love your thinking, but i have one question how does Collier fit into this plain, as I am not sure he has the same range as Langhi. Perhaps the new play could be called THICKShakes!!!! Smeeee ------------------ Stuff BBS, the Rockets and you guys It's all Clippers these days, come join the bandwagon and visit http://www.ClippersCity.net
Where have you been 'pardner? Good observations by the way. ------------------ "I've been licking this carpet for hours and I still don't feel like a lesbian!"
hey partners... nice welcome. But it isn't needed. I read this board every day. The trade talk is never-ending. This is just the first time we actually could see some play, so I must talk about it. This is fun. I wish I could do a oilypee and respond in depth to all questions, but I'm burning the candle at both ends right now with work. This season will come soon enough and I'll be posting 2,000 threads in a day as JuanValdez predicts. Crisco...I miss the email chats, how was the move. Smeg...my favorite Mobley apologist. Rocketpimp...pick a game this year, and let's go together. Rocketsauce, I've been waiting for that ... damn right!' Dadakota...yesh! We have some attitude in Langhi...gotta love it. I saw your comments in the other thread about his movement w/o the ball..right on!...but Crisco is right about the yet to know effect on defense. Defense is the key as you always say. Moe...yep about my earlier post, and about the banter is something I miss too. As for the Rocket River and Mango comments about how does Collier fit it...my only comment now is to say that that is what I meant by saying "There is no doubt how Rudy intends to use the rookies". My point is that Rudy got two guys that could fill a similar very important role, so that he is guaranteed one of them will pan out. There is nothing more important to this offensive system that to insure we can get Francis to the wing and Mobley can get spacing. Any presumed importance on the low post role in this system (as MManal dreams about) is not considering how that steals from our established wing flex and 4 out 1 motion scheme. Question is: Is a Fizer type player (much less Moises) getting his touches at the expense of clogging the lane...we are talking about sum-gains here. The sum-gains will come from the incremental improvements of your current stars and the role players fitting in better. Putting 15 shots per game into the low post must steal from our current offense and it is naive and unnecessary to say we should start from scratch in November and install a new system around a rookie like Fizer. Is it a sum gain. Always ask yourself that. Another quick comment to MManal...we do NOT want to ever run the Stockton picks plays into the center of the court. We want the Francis attack coming from the wing, much like the Iverson attack. The high pick by Bullard had nothing to do with getting Francis to the center, it was about burning the defense for not letting Francis get to the wing. Sure Francis will get weave picks that get him into the middle, but it is much easier for us to attack a defense with an offense that exploits Francis on the wing. There are far more options availabe that what you see Utah doing. The Utah offense if entirely overrated in how well it can transfer to another team like us. We will never run that offense. Give it up MManal...we don't even want to run it...forget it. We want to do want we did last year with incremental improvements that add to our glorious April. We want to always first threaten a WING ATTACK. Something Stockton could never do.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but Francis does pick to the middle occasionally, but is it my imagination or does he mainly shoot a long range jumper when sliding to the middle? I presume it's because it's a LOT easier to help to the strong side in the middle than it is to help to the wing, thus Francis finds more defenders to play with if he goes middle... ...also, (and correct this if I'm wrong) - doesn't Mobley go towards the middle and try and take it to the hoop when he's iso'd or gets a pick on the right side?? - not saying that this is anything like Utah's offense, and In a way I'm glad it's not... ...but the point remains, the "young gunners" should keep defenses honest. In another matter, didn't the Bull frequent the PF spot last year?? IF Langhi was to play some minutes at PF then he wouldn't be worse defensively than Bullard and the iso play MIGHT be an option for him, he sure looks to have enough skills to take a slower man on and create enough room for his shot.... ------------------
Hey DrN...how you doing? Yes, Francis gets picks to the middle, of course he does. He gets picks all over the place. Point is the offense is attempting to start from the wing. He would love to just dribble there like he did in the "ankle breaking play" that DoD posted once, but the defenses don't let him. Yes definitely, getting Francis to the free throw line to threaten a blast to the hole is something they run, but that is all part of the options off the wing. The difference is best seen in where we attempt to get the defense to go versus Utah. Utah allows the other team's center to sit under the basket; we don't. ALL Utah options start from the center of the court and beg the opposing center fill the lane to stop Stockton quick jumper/floater if he gets around the pick. We take the center out away from the basket and beg him to retreat to help (leaving Cato). Big difference. Besides, I think Shandon would quit, if we started running the Utah offense. As for Mobley Dr., I am not following. They call Two Shakes an ISO because there are NO picks involved. He definitely starts the ISO from a 45 degree angle wing position. Yes, sometimes he goes right, sometimes left, sometimes out-of-bounds. But I would never call that having anything to do with a center entry point, or a pick. Last, I've got you down as the first person on the board to call for a Langhi ISO. What a difference a couple of good games makes on this board!! I think he will definitely be on the floor with 3 guards and a center plenty of times (like Walt/Bullard last year), but I would never call that requiring ISO called for him, or any low post plays whatesover...not this year. If Cato plays better defense this year: Cato Walt/Langhi Mobley Anderson Francis will be a featured line-up in key 5-8 minute spurts. Better yet, if Dream can play some defense, that 3 guard line-up will excel now that we are guaranteed to have plenty of shooters like Walt and Langhi to keep the D honest as you say. Plays to Walt/Langhi in this 3-guard line-up are about running them around several picks (ala Reggie). Not giving them low post ISOs. Curious though, what would you do if a 6-6 SF takes on Langhi when he is playing SF? The walking mismatch could go low post and show us if he can hit a turnaround fadeaway from 8-10 feet. ooh,,,I'm drooling. Who said it earlier, that we don't need low post players, we already have them in Francis and Anderson...hehe. yep!! The power and glory of attacking the wing with guards. ....game on!!! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited July 27, 2000).]
Towards the end of the season, in the second half, I noticed a good bit of Francis setting up at an angle on the left side of the floor, then he would receive a screen which he would use to the get to the middle of the floor while the PF would roll baseline. What would usually result is a wide open 15-18 footer for Francis. This was the play I was referring to from the Utah offense as they run an angled pick and roll. Im not saying take their entire offense and duplicate it, that would be disaster, but a few plays like that angled pick and roll set are good. Use that one in addition to the baseline one you were referring to and your offense starts to develop some serious variety. Also, I realize the main play for Mobley is that 1-4 overload set. However, this would add another play to their arsenal for Mobley to use. As far as the post threat. Fizer is not a paint clogging player. What we need is a PF that can play the pick and roll game along with being able to post up. To do that, the PF has to have range on his shot and be able to set good solid screens. Along with that, he has to have a good postup game. You dont change the entire offense around Fizer, you add wrinkles to your existing one with him in there. Its fun watching a perimeter oriented offense all day long, but you need to add some post wrinkles to it. Variety is the name of the game. Unless you have a Michael Jordan thats going to shoot over 50% a game from the floor even while taking a high volume of shots, you need some type of post presence. Not a paint clogging one but atleast something. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
What Rudy's plan I think is to do this pick and roll with Francis-Collier to draw the defensive center away from the basket. Utah does not have a 7 footer with the kind of range that Jason Collier has. When Jason Collier rolls to the baseline, the center will either have to follow him there which will open the middle for Francis or stay in the middle and watch Francis dish to the baseline for Collier. Collier's strongest point on the perimeter when he receives a feed is the baseline shot. If he gets a feed and is open on the baseline, its money in the bank. The play where Francis goes baseline, and the picker rolls straight away to the top like Bullard used to will probably be run for Dan Langhi. Langhi can shoot from anywhere so it really doesnt matter, but the straight away three isnt Coller's strength like the baseline shot is. As far as the high post/low post thing. You want a player that can do both which is why I like Fizer so much. Fizer is an excellent ball handler and passer which is why I want him here. Can you imagine Francis and Anderson cutting w/o the ball around a player with his passing skills? Then you can mix in some low post stuff for him as well to get some high pct hoops. You need both high post and low post imho. If you are strictly on the perimeter, your just not going to win anything long term unless you have Michael Jordan. When your beautifully scripted plays start breaking down in the playoffs, you need both a low post threat and guards that can break down the defense. You have to have freelance options when your sets start breaking down in the playoffs. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
