Can we drop the "China conspiracy" posts...

It's STANDARD...and Real and Man U are much, much, much bigger names than any NBA team.


The thing is, soccer isn't as big business wise than the NBA. Although Luis Figo (which I have to hear about all the time from the Portuguese dominant town I live in) makes absurd amounts of money for playing soccer, a big club like Real Madrid should expect a lot of its players to be gone when the National teams play. Yao is a CASHCOW for the NBA and China. This is a new thing for NBA teams, a first pick that can't be in training camp and most of the preseason even if he wants to be. It's a big risk.

 

since this is a touchy thread, and i've been waiting to post this...


china is estimated to surpass the US as the economic power within 40 yrs. if you look at the US, asians of almost every kind hold the highest per capita income in the US.. ahead of a certain religious caucasian group which i can't remember

anyhow, that doesn't matter... but i've seen all over the place posters who simply denounce ming and vehemently exclaim he will be a total bust if the rockets draft him without any actual backing. there's these half-witted posts which TRY OH SO STRAININGLY to justify why Ming will suck by emphasizing this and that.


i just want to know.


i've lived in Houston and from middle school through old age are sometimes hell if you're a minority.


I just want to ask, and i don't need to hear answers, how many of you guys out there don't want Ming because of a biased opinion against Chinese and Chinese basketball players?



.... because i'm simply sick of posters pulling reasons out of their @ss that make no sense on why getting Ming is a bad idea. do me a favor - give me some logic,
and if you're hatin Chinese - stay in your shallow world and don't come out and learn something. you deserve that

 

Brilliant thread. Let's judge Ming on his basketball skills, not his background, because that is racism.

 

It is racism to talk about the fact that he won't be in training camp or be able to participate in half of the preseason? He won't be there because the Chinese gov't won't allow him to be there. It's just stating the facts. If people that are pro-Ming say individuals are just anti-Ming because he is Chinese they are the bad ones in the whole dilemma. Most people are anti-Ming because: A) They don't think he'll be able to withstand the physical beating of being an NBA center at 7'5" B) Not one player in NBA history with freakish height like that has had a healthy career C) They think he will be a defensive liability D) The Chinese Gov't is demanding too much to pick this man with the first overall pick.

Personally for me its C and D. That is why I'm happy the Knicks didn't win the lottery.

Back to international soccer, this isn't only about the amount of money that the players make, its about the amount of money that the actual organizations make. I'm willing to bet the NBA makes much, much, much more money than any individual soccer team in Europe.

 

I thought Winchestor or some English team was the most valuable sports franchise in the world, so why the mention of Real or Madrid as being such a huge factor? In fact, Forbes or someone said that the Yankees are the 2nd biggest franchise and the Cowboys are the 3rd biggest (maybe vice versa with those 2).

Obviously Real or Madrid can't have that highly obsurd a revenues if the Yanks or Downboys are worth more money. There's no way the Yanks or Downboys make more money than the entire NBA.

 

Not at all. It's just racist when you bash the guy simply because he's Chinese and proud of it, without using any evidence to support your claim. Just what SRJ said...

 

It seems like you all are arguing about the wrong this on this soccer comparison. It's obvious that some soccer players make megabucks and that some clubs have revenue that at least rivals, if not dwarfs, the typical NBA club.

The difference is that the soccer clubs obviously have adjusted to sharing their stars' playing time with the national teams. In fact, it's common practice and is therefore part of the competitive landscape.

The NBA, however, has not adapted to this yet. The Dream Teams seem to play for the most part in the offseason, before training camp and preseason kicks in. But what if the Chinese national team commitments are more extensive or frequent? If Yao is counted on to be a star, and ends up missing opportunities for substantial training/development in the offseason, this could put the Rocks at a competitive disadvantage against other NBA teams who may not have this issue.

 

I am a Chinese American. I came from Mainland China.

Among the posts I have read here, I haven't seen one that should be considered as "raciest". All the questions and concerns asked seem to be valid ones.

"Can we cut out all the "damm China and their Govt" posts please...

--Maybe, I missed something, could you show a link there.

"Some posters have even gone on how Yao should "defect" to the USA. "

--Well, I posted a couple of messages TRANSLATED from a Chinese forum in China that suggested that.

I love to see Ming coming to Houston. China is a great country.

However, I can foresee some "unnecessary" misunderstanding by our fellow Americans who have never dealt with China before. The "unnecessary" misunderstanding is that the Chinese government continues to call themselves Communists even though they are practicing their version of "capitalism" to the extreme.

Talking about stupidity in marketing.

As you know and for good reasons, most of our fellow Americans may have bias toward any commies! Or someone who calls themselves commies while they are actually NOT.

 

Real Madrid is one team, not two. But anyway, the team you are thinking of is Manchester United. No coincidence that Steinbrenner owns the top 2 sports teams in the world.

Europe has many, many more soccer teams than there are NBA teams. The comparison is a hard one.

I think Yao will be a risk considering he has to play for the Chinese National team. No one knows anything about the exact length, the training camp and much of the preseason is just an estimate.

And I am happy that the Knicks didn't win the lottery because Yao won't be able to play a lick of defense *fact*, and if he can't go to training camp, he won't get to play that much. The Knicks can be contenders in 5 years, but I don't know if Cablevision will allow them to rebuild for that long. They haven't let the Rangers do it.

 

The richest soccer team in the world

I don't know the knicks revenue. I think they should be in the same level. but soccer is more popular in the world and there are more soccer teams. This year an english team signed a chinese soccer player for 2 Million pound. That team was not in the highest level english soccer league at that time. And that guy is just a bench player!

I know NBA have restriction for transferring money to foreign teams. But what is that for? IMO it 's to prevent two NBA teams from bidding a foreign player! Come on, that is not so called "free market". Monopoly?Cartel?I don't know. It's very common two Italian teams bid for a brazil soccer player. Is itialian so silly?not really, the soccer sports gets the real benefit. Entrepreneur all around world would happily invest in their team without warry that someday their popular players are withdrawed by some top team and couldn't get fair pay. Maybe that is one of reasons why soccer is so popular.

There is no doubt that NBA, CBA, ShangHai Sharks have their own agenda. But there is also huge common interest. I hope Ming can come Rockets without too much hassle if Rockets wants him. But if NBA want to enroll more foreign talents, as long as NBA has no regulation to handle this issue, believe me, there will be more headache.

BTW, is there something called "cap" in NBA? hehe, IMO, that is not "captialism", that is typical "communism".

 

I know FIFA has some regulations about this issue. Such as, what kind of level tournament you can attend, how many days you need to inform the team advanced, how many days the team has right to keep you before the tournament begins. Olympic game once 4 years, others?each last 20 days? I don't know. Maybe they make a arrangement that Ming will not miss the offeseason training too much.

 

I think you make a good point, Sugar Land. I also don't see the reaction as racist, but I do see it as ASTONISHINGLY ignorant. China has been doing business with the world for a long time now, and for people to say, "we can't trust them" or "the government could pull Ming out at any time," is ignorant to say the least. Hysterical and reactionary are other terms that spring to mind. And I think you're right that it's the "C" word that tends to switch their brains from rational to hysterical mode. I should point out that several of us in this thread aren't American. SRJ and ZRB are Australians, and I'm a Canadian, so we have grown up with different perspectives on China. For most of the world, the fact that "communist" cities like Hong Kong and Shanghai are amongst the most capitalist cities in the world is hardly news. But Americans, from McCarthyism to Reaganism, have been so indoctrinated with simple minded concepts and demonization of "Communism" and "Socialism" that mere presence of the word makes some of them instantly turn their brains off and start clucking like Chicken Little. And this seems to happen to some very otherwise educated people!? I find it very bizarre … and informative.

 

First off Grizzled, let me point out that I'm American, so I guess I'm not capable of being as objective as someone from Canada or Australia Well, here's my "reactionary" point of view:

I'm sure that the vast majority of posters on this board have no problem whatsoever with the Chinese PEOPLE. It's also common knowledge that China is for the most part a capitalist economy at this point, with continuing liberalization, although there is still widespread corruption and a much lower protection of property, contract, and intellectual rights than you would find in most Western economies.

The real problem in China, and what many posters are concerned with, is the government. Basically what you have is a large amount of power concentrated in a select few, with really no protections for the press, freedom of association, etc. The police powers and ability to harass dissidents pretty much unchecked in all kinds of ways, big and small, is something that is dear to these guys.

In other words, most of the leaders are thugs. Polite, sophisticated thugs maybe, but thugs nonetheless. And yes, there are certainly moderate forces there as well, but they really have little power or influence at this point. I won't even get into what I think about their foreign policy, such as it is.

By the way, this is really not a uniquely American point of view, Grizzled. You can get most of this out of European publications like The Economist as well.

What does all this have to do with Yao Ming? Well, the Chinese government could make things difficult for him, his family, and friends back home if he doesn't do what they want, that's what. It's not quite like dealing with, say, the German government regarding Dirk Nowitzki. Is this being paranoid? Maybe, but it certainly is an issue that the Rockets have to get comfortable with if they're going to go out on a limb and pick him.

 

Grizzled,

I do agree that there is a lot of ignorance about dealing with this Ming thing (lol, Ming thing again), but there is reason for concern about his eligibility and how much time he has for training camp. Look at Wang Zhi Zhi. He was drafted and took 2 years to get over here. I know it was a different circumstance for military and all, but it still concerns people especially when its the 1st pick in the draft and not a 2nd rounder.

I think the reason for the ingorance is simple. We just don't know how this is going to work. This is going to be trial and error. This isn't like Wang Zhi Zhi. If Wang misses training camp or somethign who cares? He's a bench player, but Ming is expected to be a star and expected to be an intrical part of our team. We HAVE to have him here for training camp and we HAVE to have him here all season. This will be trial and error, so we're all kind of ignorant to what the future holds for us in this circumstance. Its up to CD and Rudy to see if its worth the hastle and whether or not they're star player is going to be around enough to gel with the team and improve his game.

 

First let me say that perhaps the tone my post was a little more provocative than it should have been. I hadn't had my morning cup of coffee yet and was still a little cranky.

The real problem in China, and what many posters are concerned with, is the government. Basically what you have is a large amount of power concentrated in a select few, with really no protections for the press, freedom of association, etc. The police powers and ability to harass dissidents pretty much unchecked in all kinds of ways, big and small, is something that is dear to these guys.

With respect, I think this is a largely outdated view. While I'm certainly not defending everything the Chinese government does, it is the government that is allowing, even promoting, the economic and political reforms that are happening. A century ago china was a country in chaos, heavily influenced by foreign powers, ravaged by poverty, opium, etc. The revolution was a way for the Chinese to take control of their own country, and to reform their economy, for the good of the country as a whole. Once control had been established, the next step was to begin to open the country up, and to give the people more freedoms. They were cautious about doing this because they didn't want to throw the country into a state of chaos, like the chaos that happened and is happening in Russia. It wouldn't surprise me at all if China, buy it's own free will, becomes a democracy in the next 50 years. I think that's the next logical progression. We can debate the tactics used in getting to where they are, and I would probably agree with many of the criticisms but that's a different topic.

In other words, most of the leaders are thugs. Polite, sophisticated thugs maybe, but thugs nonetheless. And yes, there are certainly moderate forces there as well, but they really have little power or influence at this point. I won't even get into what I think about their foreign policy, such as it is.

I wouldn't call them thugs. They use harsh controls, many of which I would disagree with, but they are executing a strategy to reform the country that they believe is in the best interests of the nation as a whole, I believe. Certainly there is corruption, but what surprises me is that there hasn't been more corruption. Power corrupts, and the leaders hold a lot of power, and yet they have put into motion a process that will inevitably erode their power dramatically. Perhaps they were wise enough to see that there was no other choice. Real power these days is economic power. The Amercian empire is an economic empire, not a political one. The business class, the liberals in China, are rapidly gaining hold of the levers of the economy, and therefore the power. The bourgeoisie is on the rise, and if the French revolution informs us at all on where this process ends, the distribution of power in China will change radically in the coming years.

What does all this have to do with Yao Ming? Well, the Chinese government could make things difficult for him, his family, and friends back home if he doesn't do what they want, that's what. It's not quite like dealing with, say, the German government regarding Dirk Nowitzki. Is this being paranoid? Maybe, but it certainly is an issue that the Rockets have to get comfortable with if they're going to go out on a limb and pick him.

No more than the American government could, I suspect. What would they have to gain by doing this? They would have far far more to lose. The do not treat average businessmen this way anymore, so why would they do this to a high profile person like Yao? It would be counterproductive for them on many levels. They want him to come over here and succeed. This would improve their status in the world. And there is much $$$$ to be made from his success. Think of what this could do for the pro sports industry in China. Sure they would like him to compete for them in the world championships and the Olympics, but most Olympic sports (hockey for one) have standard ways of dealing with this. And it affects all international players, or it should and probably will. I certainly want Nash and Todd Mac to play for Canada. This situation is somewhat new, it's not Europe, but I suspect that it will play out in essentially the same manner. Having the first pick allows the Rockets to address the uncertainties and come to a deal before they draft him. For teams lower down, having to wait to see if you get him before working out a deal would be far more risky, yet Chicago and NY seem quite willing. Houston has a very small political risk in this situation, IMO. The question should be, is he the right player?

bsb:
I agree that this is a new situation and with that come uncertainties, but the Rockets have time to address those issues before the draft, so I'm quite optimistic that that part of the Yao question can be dealt with to the Rockets' satisfaction.

 

This is nothing personal towards you Lobo.

China is not a comunistic country whatever the gov't call themselves. Neither is it a democracy.

Dealing with the german government regarding Nowitzki? I very mutch doubt there was any dealing with the german gov't. Almost as much do I doubt that there will be any dealing with the chinese gov't. The dealings will be with the CBA and the Shanghai Sharks.

 

Originally posted by nilsrock


China is not a comunistic country whatever the gov't call themselves. Neither is it a democracy.

You're right about that. These days, "Communism" really means totalarianism.


Dealing with the german government regarding Nowitzki? I very mutch doubt there was any dealing with the german gov't.

Exactly!


Almost as much do I doubt that there will be any dealing with the chinese gov't. The dealings will be with the CBA and the Shanghai Sharks.

In case you haven't read the articles, any NBA team that wants to sign Yao Ming will need to deal with no fewer than FIVE agencies of the Chinese government, in addition to the CBA and Shanghai Sharks. (I'm too lazy to find a link right now). Also, the government has made it clear that it intends to collect 50% of anything Yao makes in salary and endorsements.