RM95's thread about religion in his family got me to thinking about my own faith. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with "salvation by faith alone." I have a difficult time with the idea of Mother Teresa having lunch in Heaven with Adolph Hitler because he had a death-bunker conversion. I'm more moved by the "Faith plus Works" that seems to be part of catholicism, but then I also feel VERY rebellious toward autocratic leadership of a Pope and Bishops, et al. I was Quaker in my young adulthood but found it to be more about politics rather than spiritualism. What other options are there?
Universal Unitarians have the biggest tent. They will encourage whatever you want to believe. BTW iirc and fwiw Hilter was raised Catholic and considered himself a Catholic.
There was an element within the Catholic Church that tolerated anti-semitism, since Jews were the supposed "christ killers". The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (1962) addressed this issue iirc.
The problem with salvation by works is that you never know how much is enough? Where would you draw the line with being good enough for heaven and not being good enough for heaven. Thats why Christ died for our sins because we could never measure up to God's expectations. Christ came to earth and lived a perfect life, something that no one else could do, and then paid the ultimate price by dying and taking on the sins of the world even though he didnt deserve it. Now anyone who believes in Christ has the opportunity to go to heaven. That way it is very cut and dry. If you believe in Christ you have everlasting life and if you dont then you dont. Of course this is what I believe and what most Christians believe and I hope that you do not think of it as preachy. Hopefully that explains it better.
I like the Unitarians, too and if my wife decides that we are to attend a physical church, it will be Unitarian. My neighbors are Unitarian and we have had some good conversations about spirituality. They have a very diverse set of opinions and no set dogma. If you live inside the loop or near the Galleria, I enjoyed and highly recommend Unity (on the corner of Unity and Hillcroft just north of Richmond) tremendously when I lived up there.
Why would you worry so much about what happens to Hitler? Does it make your own eternal paradise somehow less gratifying because Hiter might not be suffering forever?
Personally, I love the punishment meted out by Satan in Little Nicky. Nothing like having the business end of a pineapple shoved up your a$$ every day for all eternity. It is probably worse that he has to pick it out himself.
i'd like to second this. if somehow you cannot get over the fact that evil-doers will be saved, then maybe you ought to reconsider becoming a christian. if i understand correctly, being a sinful catholic doesn't mean that you don't go to heaven if you don't do good works, it just means that you have to suffer in purgatory for a bit longer. in the end, all believers still get to stay in heaven for an eternity. in comparison, both this life and purgatory are insignificant.
well it just seems unfair that Hitler goes to heaven for believing in Christ's divinity but Gandhi doesn't because he didn't. i just get the whole believing = saved scenario. it would seem to me that God would be above such egomaniacal vanity. what about people who have never even heard of Christ in their entire lives? they won't go to heaven because of their ignorance?
No doubt. To me, that is more than absurd. It is insane. Who would you rather hang out with for eternity? Ghandi and the Buddha, or Jesus and Hitler. Whoa. My head hurts (to say nothing of my fetid soul!).
The problem lies within the question. Salvation exists right now at this very moment. All you have to is be awake.
Must have been a pretty small element. My wife is Jewish and I am Catholic. The church told us that this is no problem for the church since "we are all children of Abraham."
I'm sure it is now, but I think he was referring to a time way before you and your wife were married. Catholicism is in the running for us as well. RM95's Girl is a confirmed Catholic.
Why do I think there is more here than meets the eye? <b>Lil and JuanValdez</b> have kept Hitler on my brain more than I kept him there myself. I know the conundrum that <b>MasterBaiter</b> is citing-- you could have always done more. Surely it is a riddle. Maybe the salvation by faith alone is the Truth; I've just always wrestled with it. Sorry but I do struggle with a monster on earth being an angel in the afterlife. Don't you?
Totally honest question here: if you were Jesus/God/Trinity (whatever you wish to call it), would you throw any one of your children in the Lake of Fire to suffer in torment for eternity, because they didn't believe in you?
