California man tried to blow up mosque in Detroit suburb

The guy is a nut case who has made attempts and threats not just to harm Muslim, but also George Bush and others if I remember the reports correctly. There really isn't much to debate. What's there to talk about? Are we in favor of insane people or against them?

Sure you can say in this specific case maybe he's influence by some right wing talking heads spreading Islamophobia, but in the absence of such talking heads, he'll probably be trying to harm some other group for some other imagined reason anyway.

 

I don't think we should allow this under "he's just crazy, he's not a terrorist."

In fact, he is a terrorist regardless of whether it was a mosque or George Bush.

But I agree that lack of publicity is maybe better in this case. The guy should do serious time though hopefully.

 

What's there to debate about. This guy is insane and needs to go to a sanitarium but are you trying to say this is equivalent to September 11 because it's not.

 

If this guy was a Muslim trying to blow up a Church or Synagogue, I'm sure your attitude would be the complete opposite.

 

I'm sure it would but don't blame this on the media or the conservatives, blame it on guys like Abdullah el-Faisal and Faisal Shahzad who made your religion look so bad.

 

It's simple all about racism, where if it was a Muslim his face and mugshot would be all over the news, we would be hearing about it all day long, but just because he is local and us native we attempt to cover it up.

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I'm wondering why anyone from San Diego would travel to Detriot, ever.

 

It doesn't help that the guy was caught with firecrackers. Kids play with M-80s. It is probably relevant that it was a non-Muslim targeting a mosque, but the fact that it was a lone nut that has "targeted" the government in the past and that he doesn't appear to have had any real chance to hurt anyone probably enters into it as well. If a Muslim guy who had previously made threats against McDonalds and Best Buy was caught on his way to a church with a box of M-80s, I don't know that it would be big news either.

 

Really?

Why don't you try growing a beard and saying Allahu Akbar and running towards a funeral at a church with your hands empty. Even leave your shirt open to be clear that you're not carrying explosives.

Let's see what happens.

 

Most likely a Christian nutjob. We should have an extensive and very public examination of what role if any his Christian beliefs if any played in this. The FBI should be directed to spend thousands of hours examining any Christian Church going or Bible reading, association with fellow Christians.

Nightline. 20/20. Time Magazine. A townhall meeting on the major networks lasting for hours. The whole thing. Also a referendum in Texas that the Constitution of the US and the State of Texas should be forever the supreme law of the land and specifically not the Bible.

etc.

On the otherhand given the tremendous prejudice against Muslims the chance of copy cat actions is so high in "Christian" America that it might have been wise to hush it up.

 

I hate to make generalizations and all, but generally, a person that wants to blow up buildings with people still inside them needs to be locked away and kept from doing it again. I don't care if he's a "terrorist" or not. To me a terrorist usually at least has a political cause to draw attention to.

But it would be nice to see him share a cell block with some NOI members.

 

Actually, it was on most major news sites a couple of weeks ago when the arrest actually occurred. Don't blame the media for you missing it.

 

On the other hand, perhaps just a nutjob in general:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Roger-Stockham-kidnapped-son-foster-home.html

- kidnapped son, crashed getaway plane

- planted a bomb in Nevada

- held a psychiatrist hostage using bombs and pistol

- set fire to Union Oil company facilities

- threatened George Bush and veteran's officials

 

Fixed.

 

I **** you not, you could make an almost identical list for OBL. It's uncanny.

They're all terrorists. Terrorists are mentally disturbed by definition. They are nutjobs because wanting to engage in terror is something only a nutjob would resort to.

If you want to say he's a terrorist with problems that a psych can assess, sure. But that doesn't differentiate him from other terrorists.

Don't give people excuses. Barring all-out clinical insanity, these people should be treated like the scum they are, all of them.

 

Excellent point.

If you look at the history of America, almost every minority group has had to undergo broad stereotyping, guilt by association, and discrimination in much the same way that Muslims are today. Jim Crow, Anti-Polish, Anti-Jewish, Anti-Japanese, Anti-Latino, etc. have all been subjected to bigotry, and more often than not, suffered from an organized and systematic attempt to demonize them and characterize them as the ‘other’ (some still are). Coining new terms to distinguish each groups discrimination (e.g. Islamophobia today) is possible, but the root cause is always the same, and that’s the ability of the masses to adopt a collective psychology of superiority, which started in the first days of American Colonization.

The idea is that, in order for us to effectively demonize others, we have to clearly delineate and brand them as the ‘others’- they are either ‘less American’, ‘hate us’, or are for some rhyme or reason unfit due to a conceived danger that they cause (cognitive dissonance if you will). If a non-Muslim flies a plane into a building (IRS Story), kills his wife or daughter (see this or this), or unleashes wanton violence on a group of unsuspecting innocent civilians (Jared Loughner), they are typically described as being mentally ill or psychotic. Conversely, a random uncouth bum Muslim gets characterized as shrewd, under the influence of his/her ideology, and serves as an illustration as to the dangers of ‘islam as a whole.’ It cant merely be a product of recent socio-political-cultural circumstances that have engendered violent activity (although all the evidence leads itself to that conclusion), nor can it be an isolated event (as Sarah Palin recently said, “acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own”….if only she was consistent in that sentiment!)…it has to be tied to Islam and Muslims.

That’s why Jared Loughner or Roger Stockham cant and don’t get described as terrorists- it simply hits too close to home.

This also explains why many so many self-proclaimed Islam experts who routinely condemn anything remotely connected to Islam get trumpeted as what ordinary Muslims need to aspire to be like. They are no longer the “other” by virtue of their ability to contribute to the demonization of Muslims, much the same way the best African American would be the one who willingly admits the inferiority of the Black race and actively supports slavery/Jim Crow/etc. as a necessary institution.

Before anyone reacts too angrily, I’m not creating an equivalency between modern day discrimination/prejudice against Muslims and slavery (obviously, slavery was a far greater injustice). I’m merely saying that the psychology behind discrimination, regardless of its physical manifestation, is almost always the same.

On a sidenote, for anyone interested, USF and SUNY-Albany recently did a study on Hate Crimes. It's a worthwhile read.

 

I never said he wasn't a terrorist. I was replying to glynch's post in which he made a point to say he was a 'Christian' nutjob. There is nothing in this guy's past to indicate any of his acts related to Christianity.

 

The more familiar and comfortable you are with a person's background the easier it is to see more complexities in that person.

White southern californian wants to blow up a mosque. A mostly white American society can see that maybe it's more about being crazy than being a terrorist.

A middle eastern Muslim man wants to attack some American landmark. The Americans will see the larger picture and differences and rarely move past that. They will see Muslim and Middle Eastern decent. They will attach a cause.

The inverse is also true. People from the middle east can see past the Middle Eastern muslim part which they are used to seeing and look for more complex reasons behind terrorism