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California Can't Ban Gay Marriage

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Lil Pun, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Judge Rules California Cannot Ban Gay Marriage

    SAN FRANCISCO - A judge ruled Monday that California's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional — a legal milestone that, if upheld on appeal, would open the way for the most populous state to follow Massachusetts in allowing same-sex couples to wed.

    Judge Richard Kramer of San Francisco County's trial-level Superior Court likened the ban to laws requiring racial segregation in schools, and said there appears to be "no rational purpose" for denying marriage to gay couples.

    The ruling came in response to lawsuits filed by the city of San Francisco and a dozen gay couples a year ago after the California Supreme Court halted a four-week same-sex marriage spree started by Mayor Gavin Newsom.

    The opinion had been eagerly awaited because of San Francisco's historical role as a gay rights battleground.

    Gay marriage supporters hailed the ruling as a historic development akin to the 1948 state Supreme Court decision that made California the first state to legalize interracial marriage.

    "Today's ruling is an important step toward a more fair and just California that rejects discrimination and affirms family values for all California families," San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera said.

    At issue were a 1977 law that defined marriage as "a personal relation arising out of a civil contract between a man and a woman," and a voter-approved measure in 2000 that amended the law to say more explicitly: "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

    The state maintained that tradition dictates that marriage should be limited to opposite-sex couples. Attorney General Bill Lockyer also cited the state's domestic-partners law as evidence that California does not discriminate against gays.

    But Kramer rejected that argument, citing Brown v. Board of Education — the landmark U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) decision that struck down segregated schools.

    "The idea that marriage-like rights without marriage is adequate smacks of a concept long rejected by the courts — separate but equal," the judge wrote.

    It could be months or years before the state actually sanctions same-sex marriage, if ever.

    Robert Tyler, an attorney with the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, said the group would appeal. And Lockyer has said in the past that he expected the matter eventually would have to be settled by the California Supreme Court.

    Last winter, nearly 4,000 gay couples got married after Newsom instructed the city to issue them licenses. The California Supreme Court later declared those marriages void, saying the mayor overstepped his authority. But the court did not address the underlying issue of whether the law against gay marriage violates the California Constitution.

    Two bills now before the California Legislature would put a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November ballot. If California voters approve such an amendment, as those in 13 other states did last year, that would put the issue out of the control of lawmakers and the courts.

    The decision is the latest development in a national debate that has been raging since 2003, when the highest court in Massachusetts decided that denying gay couples the right to wed was unconstitutional.

    In the wake of the Massachusetts ruling, gay rights advocates filed lawsuits seeking to strike down traditional marriage laws in several other states. Opponents responded by proposing state and federal constitutional amendments banning gay marriage.

    Around the country, Kramer is the fourth trial court judge in recent months to decide that the right to marry and its benefits must be extended to same-sex couples.

    Two Washington state judges, ruling last summer in separate cases, held that prohibiting same-sex marriage violates that state's constitution, and on Feb. 4, a New York City judge ruled in favor of five gay couples who had been denied marriage licenses by the city.

    Just as many judges have gone the other way in recent months, however, refusing to accept the argument that keeping gays from marrying violates their civil rights.

    California has the highest percentage of same-sex partners in the nation, and its Legislature has gone further than any other in providing gay couples the benefits of marriage without being forced to do so by court order.
     
  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Mehlman article
    On other topics, Mehlman said:

    - It's not his job as head of the party to tell states whether they should allow same-sex couples to wed or form civil unions. "Certainly our platform states that the party is committed to ensuring that there is traditional marriage," he said, but he didn't think the party should take a position on state initiatives.


    I guess gay bashing is only an election year tactic. The Religious Right got used (like we knew they would).
     
    #2 No Worries, Mar 14, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2005
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    damn liberal activist judges?

    Judge in gay marriage case is a Catholic Republican appointee
    DAVID KRAVETS

    Associated Press

    SAN FRANCISCO - Supporters of same-sex marriage found an ally in San Francisco Judge Richard Kramer - a Catholic Republican appointed to the bench by a former GOP governor.

    "We're certainly feeling the judge's decision is right," said San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, whose city's lawsuit prompted Kramer's ruling Monday that gays and lesbians have the right to marry in California, despite a law and a voter-approved measure declaring marriage to be the exclusive realm of heterosexuals.

    Opponents of gay marriage immediately declared that 57-year-old Kramer is a judicial activist whose decision was "ludicrous" and "nonsense."

    "We knew Judge Kramer was under tremendous political pressure to redefine marriage, but we were hopeful he would recognize the limited role of the judiciary," said Robert Tyler, an Alliance Defense Fund attorney trying to uphold California's traditional marriage laws. "We do not believe it is appropriate for judges in this setting to overturn the will of the people."

    With a 27-page stroke of the pen, Kramer did just that. "The parade of horrible social ills envisioned by the opponents of same-sex marriage is not a necessary result from recognizing that there is a fundamental right to choose who one wants to marry," he wrote in the decision, which won't be enforced for 60 days, to give opponents time to appeal.

    Lawyers who have practiced before Kramer said the 1972 graduate of the University of Southern California Law Center is among the top judges in San Francisco, and is unswayed by public opinion.

    "I think he does what he thinks is right," said Robert Stumpf Jr., who settled a class-action for $6.7 million before Kramer last year while representing Wells Fargo.

    The bank was accused of illegally selling customers' financial information. Stumpf said Kramer steered negotiations between the bank and plaintiffs attorneys for a year. "His proposal was legally sound and practical," he said.

    Gov. Pete Wilson appointed Kramer in December 1996, when Kramer was specializing in bank litigation.

    Kramer had made a name for himself in the legal world in 1992, when he successfully defended Bank of America in a class-action lawsuit in which the bank was accused of illegally freezing credit-card interest rates around 20 percent between 1982 and 1986. First Interstate and Wells Fargo, also plaintiffs in that case, had settled for a combined $55 million, but Kramer the lawyer took the case to trial and prevailed.

    Nancy Hersh, a San Francisco-based class-action lawyer, said Kramer "listens carefully to both sides. His reasoning is excellent and he has great attention to detail."

    "He's not irrational or unreasonable," added Hersh, whose plaintiffs sued Imperial Premium Finance. The Sherman Oaks insurer agreed to provide 30,000 customers with $35 coupons to be used to pay their premiums after Kramer ruled the company was illegally holding onto customer refunds.

    Kramer declined to be interviewed for this story. But he gave a sense of how dedicated he is as a jurist in a 1999 interview with the San Francisco Daily Journal, a legal trade publication.

    While he said he sought out a judgeship so that he could spend more time with his wife and daughter, he said he spent his first months as a criminal court judge reading the Penal Code cover to cover and driving through crime-ridden neighborhoods in San Francisco to get a sense of what was happening in the community.

    "It's all fascinating to me," he told the Daily Journal. "What you have to do is figure out what the person did and what to do about it. And most of these cases require common sense and humanity."

    The case is Marriage Cases, Judicial Council Coordination Proceeding, 4364.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    i've said this before, butt it bears repeating: if you don't like gay marriage, don't have ass sex!
     
  5. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    The only ass here is readily apparent.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

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    The majority of the court that ruled in favor of gay marriage in Mass. was also appointed by Republicans.
     
  7. ChrisP

    ChrisP Member

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    These quotes really stood out to me. Just because a majority votes for something, doesn't make it right. Our government sometimes has to intervene to protect minorities from the majority.

    Attempts to ban gay marriage, IMO, will have the opposite effect in the end. They have shone a light on an injustice that was mostly ignored before.
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
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    since i ass-u-me you're referring to me, may i also infer that you don't like ass sex, or is it gay marriage that gets your dander up? either way, i'm disappointed.
     
    #8 basso, Mar 15, 2005
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2005
  9. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    If you are worried about protecting the sanctity of marriage, then you should spend your time fighting TV shows like "Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire" and "The Bachelor." While your at it, try to do something about the high divorce rate. Once you solve these problems that have a gigantic impact on our entire society, then I'll be willing to hear arguments about why you think gay marriage is a threat to the institution of marriage.

    In the meantime, lets spend our collective efforts figuring out how to stabalize Iraq and get the heck out of there.
     
  10. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Gov. Pete Wilson these days in most of the country would be considered a Liberal.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Anal sex isn't my favorite type, and gay marriage doesn't "get [my] dander up." I can't say I'm disappointed in you as I have come to expect inflammatory crap from you.
     
  12. basso

    basso Member
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    only when discussing anal sex ;)
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I find that I get more inflammatory crap out of Thai food, but whatever...

    ;)
     

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