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Bush wins another one for his buddies in the oil Industry

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Mar 16, 2005.

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  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    :mad:

    Senate Votes to Allow Arctic Drilling

    By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON - Amid the backdrop of soaring oil and gasoline prices, a sharply divided Senate on Wednesday voted to open the ecologically rich Alaska wildlife refuge to oil drilling, delivering a major energy policy win for President Bush (news - web sites).

    The Senate, by a 51-49 vote, rejected an attempt by Democrats and GOP moderates to remove a refuge drilling provision from next year's budget, preventing opponents from using a filibuster — a tactic that has blocked repeated past attempts to open the Alaska refuge to oil companies.

    The action, assuming Congress agrees on a budget, clears the way for approving drilling in the refuge later this year, drilling supporters said.

    The oil industry has sought for more than two decades to get access to what is believed to be billions of barrels of oil beneath the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in the northern eastern corner of Alaska.

    Environmentalists have fought such development and argued that despite improve environmental controls a web of pipelines and drilling platforms would harm calving caribou, polar bears and millions of migratory birds that use the coastal plain.

    Bush has called tapping the reserve's oil a critical part of the nation's energy security and a way to reduce America's reliance on imported oil, which account for more than half of the 20 million barrels of crude use daily. The Alaska refuge could supply as much as 1 million barrels day at peak production, drilling supporters said.

    "We won't see this oil for 10 years. It will have minimal impact," argued Sen. Maria Cantwell (news, bio, voting record), D-Wash., a co-sponsor of the amendment that would have stripped the arctic refuge provision from the budget document. It is "foolish to say oil development and a wildlife refuge can coexist," she said.

    Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), D-Mass., argued that more oil would be saved if Congress enacted an energy policy focusing on conservation, more efficient cars and trucks and increased reliance on renewable fuels and expanded oil development in the deep-water Gulf where there are significant reserves.

    "The fact is (drilling in ANWR) is going to be destructive," said Kerry.

    But drilling proponents argued that modern drilling technology can safeguard the refuge and still tap the likely — though not yet certain — 10.4 billion barrels of crude in the refuge.

    "Some people say we ought to conserve more. They say we ought to conserve instead of producing this oil," said Sen. Pete Domenici (news, bio, voting record), R-N.M., "But we need to do everything. We have to conserve and produce where we can."

    The vote Wednesday contrasted with the last time the Senate took up the ANWR drilling issue two years ago. Then, an attempt to include it in the budget was defeated. But drilling supporters gained strength last November when Republicans picked up three additional seats, all senators who favored drilling in the refuge.

    Opponents of drilling complained that Republicans this time were trying "an end run" by attaching the refuge provisions to the budget, a tactic that would allow the measure to pass with a majority vote.

    "It's the only way around a filibuster" which requires 60 votes to overcome, countered Stevens.

    The 19-million-acre refuge was set aside for protection by President Eisenhower in 1960, but Congress in 1980 said its 1.5 million acre coastal plain could be opened to oil development if Congress specifically authorizes it.

    Bush, who has urged Congress repeatedly to allow oil companies to tap the refuge's crude, said Wednesday it's "a way to get some additional reserves here at home on the books."

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...u=/ap/20050316/ap_on_go_co/arctic_drilling_11

    When will the madness end?
     
    #1 mc mark, Mar 16, 2005
  2. Uprising

    Uprising Member

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    ....
     
    #2 Uprising, Mar 16, 2005
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    When the punks are out of the WH, not before.
     
    #3 GladiatoRowdy, Mar 16, 2005
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    This will go a long way towards not doing anything of any consequence whatsoever with respect to America's dependence on foreign oil.
     
    #4 SamFisher, Mar 16, 2005
  5. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    #5 Lil Pun, Mar 16, 2005
  6. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Oh yeah I have some questions:

    How do you refuel a hydrogen powered-anything? How is the hydrogen sold, in what form?

    How much does hydrogen cost and what units are it sold in?
     
    #6 Lil Pun, Mar 16, 2005
  7. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    It's all the same industry.
     
    #7 MR. MEOWGI, Mar 16, 2005
  8. wouldabeen23

    wouldabeen23 Member

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    And at best as I understood it when the drilling became a heated debate the first time, oil industry insiders and independent groups were saying that oil from the ANWR would be 10-20 dollars more a barrel.....try filling up your SUV at those rates on top of the current 55 dollars a barrel now!

    someone check my facts, I could be WAY off....
     
    #8 wouldabeen23, Mar 16, 2005
  9. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    I'm sure that just because practically ANYBODY in this administration has major connections to the energy industry has NOTHING to do with the worldwide spike in oil prices and the sudden opening of Alaska to oil exploration in wildlife refuges.

    No, this isn't a game being played on a major scale. Like giving Jergen's to American oil companies so they can j**k off.

    Think I'm being paranoid, anyone? Or maybe you think I'm the one who's, uh, you know....j**king off?

    You tell me the administration hasn't been ratcheting up fear of China and its economy and its need for oil; then calling in a few favors and ideas to the major players in the worldwide industry, then BOOM! oil wells shut down, get turned back on, we talk about the need to find oil for ourselves rather than rely on the Middle East (not that the sheiks are gonna starve anytime soon) and Venezuela (what with Chavez supporting the little brown people more than those who already have money; he's no hero, but is he the demon the media is helping portray so that when we try to oust him the next time, we won't fail?)
     
    #9 ROXTXIA, Mar 16, 2005
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This is a crowning achievement, 20 years in the making and this is the pathetic thread title we get?

    The debate is over -- The Republicans won (again). That said, let's examine the pros and cons of drilling in the ANWR:

    Pros:
    1. Decreases foreign dependency on oil -- not the final solution, but a step in the right direction
    2. Creates JOBS for Americans
    3. Increases taxes paid to the federal government
    4. Helps to lower the price of oil
    5. Only disturbs 2,000 of the 19,000,000 acres of land
    6. Puts pressure on OPEC
    7. Increases national security by reducing dependence on foreign oil

    Cons:
    1. *Might* affect the mating habits of the porcupine caribou


    How can any rational citizen be against this? This is a desolate area in a remote location. 99.999% of Americans will never see it. The technology in place only minimally impacts a small fraction of the refuge. When gas prices are soaring, how can we not act to utilize our resources?

    The beauty of it all? This was John Forbes Kerry's pet issue. He loses again!


    CONQUERED
     
    #10 El_Conquistador, Mar 16, 2005
  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    That supposed 15% gain we'll get from the ANWR could've been gained if we enforced the fuel efficiency controls Congress passed 10 years ago, and passed legislation to speed up fuel efficiency of SUVs.

    The arctic oil is considered heavy crude, while desert oil is light crude which burns cleaner and is what Americans use. Heavy crude costs more to refine to our needs, so we'll mostly export any of that oil to other countries that don't have strict emissions controls.

    This doesn't reduce American dependence on foreign oil one bit. It might introduce supply of oil to other markets, but we are still at the mercy of the oil cartels.
     
    #11 Invisible Fan, Mar 16, 2005
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Yes, the estimated 10 billion barrels that can be extracted from the reserve over decades of drilling & extraction are enough to fully sustain americas oil consumption for a long time to come - an astounding 2.5 months!

    Thousand year old forest & ecosystem that is irreplacable vs. two months worth of oil - sounds good to me.

    By the way, as a taxpaying american citizen and part owner of the public lands - what is my net proceeds from this endeavor? Can any of its proponents quantify how much of the proceeds from the development of this natural resource (which, roughly speaking appears to be around a 500 billion dollar value give or take a hundred billion or so) is being given to its legall owners? Thx.
     
    #12 SamFisher, Mar 16, 2005
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Great post T_J. This is a super win for Bush. The only reason the liberals are complaining is because George Bush is responsible for this. It doesn't matter what he does, they'll complain. They clearly have no clue what is going on in the ANWR, they just want to complain. Hell, Bush could save 1M starving African children and they'd still find a way to b!tch about it. Liberals, tell me why thousands of waterfowl and other birds can nest and reproduce in Prudhoe Bay and Kaparuk? Tell me why there is an increasing and healthy caribou herd that migrates through this area to calve and seek respite? Did you know that Prudhoe Bay is North America's largest oil field, and only 100 miles west of the ANWR? Of course you didn't.

    The funniest part of this whole thing is John Kerry arguing for more efficient cars and trucks.
    [​IMG]
     
    #13 bigtexxx, Mar 16, 2005
  14. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Totally wrong. The neighboring Prudhoe Bay has quite a bit of heavy crude, but many studies indicate that ANWR will have sweet, low sulfur crude. This is in high demand by the refineries right now. Here is the USGS analysis of the oil characteristics:

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/stories/021703/ala_021703ala0010001.shtml

    The bottom line is that this is a step in the right direction. Lots of moves will help reduce foreign dependency, this being one of them. Given the pros and cons, this move is a no-brainer. Studies show that this could be the largest domestic field ever discovered. If Prudhoe Bay is any indication, the reserve estimates are woefully conservative. New recovery technologies can extract much more than a simple reserve study may currently indicate. The only way to find out is to drill, and that's what we shall do.

    All Americans should rejoice in this victory for consumers of oil and its refined products!
     
    #14 El_Conquistador, Mar 16, 2005
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Texxx, I know you've had a busy day rubbing things out down at the sperm donation clinic, but I figured something like this would be enough to make you pause "Where the Boys Aren't 5" and type out a few posts. As you can see, Jorge has taken up the mantle so your services aren't required today. Thanks for helping but you've got more important things to....come.
     
    #15 SamFisher, Mar 16, 2005
  16. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #16 RocketMan Tex, Mar 16, 2005
  17. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Sam, looks like you've simply thrown in the towell with that last vulgar post of yours. Your position here is incredibly weak -- trying to argue that this isn't enough oil to even bother. What a joke. This field has the potential to be the largest in the history of the US. You obviously don't know anything about the energy industry if you think your argument is credible.

    Oh, and before anyone brings it up, this legislation is filibuster proof -- it's a part of the budget! YES!
     
    #17 El_Conquistador, Mar 16, 2005
  18. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    They teachin' yawl spelin at that there Uncle Ben's Rice University, skippy?
     
    #18 RocketMan Tex, Mar 16, 2005
  19. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    It's part of the largest deficit in history--YES!
    It's helped make America the largest debtor nation in the world--YES!

    :rolleyes:
     
    #19 RocketMan Tex, Mar 16, 2005
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    RM Tex - you think Rice teaches bad spelling? Check out this nugget of humor from Sam Fisher, esquire. He's an alleged lawyer who can't spell legal.
     
    #20 bigtexxx, Mar 16, 2005
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