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Bush speech tonight. Not as cocky, no uniform but same ol same ol.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Sep 7, 2003.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Dubya just hasn't got it. He has decided on continuing his crazed plan for world domination. He basically said: "Bring it on!".

    Like Musolini and Hitler he apealed to militaristic tendenies more or less stated that he won't let America be seen as "decadent and weak".

    He asks for sacrifices from us. He is asking for $87 billion for Iraq and Afghanistan. He didn't mention how much goes to corps that have contrubuted to his campaign. No mention in retracting the massive tax breaks that could have financed his war. This of course would be too much sacrirfice for the upper classes. Better to let hopefully the poor and middle class and their children pay for his war in the future.

    He wants Powell to have a conference begging Europe and Japan to contribute.

    He said we have enough troops there, but we really need more multi-national troops. Whatever that means.

    Tries to lecture the UN. and the Europoeans. He isn't apologizing to them, yet.

    Claims that we are liberators and will leave as liberators. He tried to claim all resistance to Aemrican occupation is due to Sadam loyalist and outside terrorist. He cited the 25 member Iraqi Council we appointed. He misleadingly forgot to state that two of them, both Shiites resigned recently and called for us to leave. He knew this. Why deliberately mislead? See the link below* for the two major Shiites who left the council and a good discussion by a Middle EasternStudies professor at Tufts about the growing movement by shiites to tell us to leave.


    Talks of honoring the sacrifices of soldiers, but doesn't apologize for opposing better funding for veterans health care, hazardous duty pay et. Quoted from a letter from a captain in Iraq how supports his policy.

    Tried over and over and over again to tie Iraq to Al Qaeda or 911.

    Maybe a good strategy to have it on Sunday when the three major networks didn't want to interrupt their programming to anlyaze his speech.

    I just sounds so much like Vietnam. Happy talk and refusal to acknowlege what is going on.

    Shiites
     
  2. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    it lacked punch, and he needed punch
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    It had punch, $87 billion dollars worth.
     
  4. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    We can afford to flush $87 billion down the Iraq toilet. I mean, it's not like we could have used that money here.
     
  5. BBnP4l

    BBnP4l Member

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    yes we could have green vegan...:D
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Member

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    Hey, glynch, did Hitler and Mussolini beg too? :D
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    They should start calling Bush The Stepford President.

    What a wooden performance devoid of substance. His first speech to the Nation since strutting around on the deck of the carrier declaring the war "over", for all practical purposes, on May 1st. and this is the best he can do?

    He looked like someone who would rather have been doing anything else but giving that speech, to me. He looked like a guy thinking, "Why in the HELL am I up here? They kept telling me to wait a little longer, that things would improve, or we'd get Saddam or SOMETHING! And here I am feeling like a chump with nothing meaningful to say. It's not turning out like they told me it would. Damn!"

    That was my impression.
     
  8. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    i like to look at the big picture here. this is the beginning of the end for dubbya and he knows it.

    economy still in the tank.
    huge deficits after those unnessecary tax-cuts.
    "liberation" of iraq not going as smoothly as planned.
    still no bin laden caught. mainly b/c troops, money and attention is being diverted to iraq.
    corporate scandals involving senior members of our government (which were nicely swept under the rug, by the way)

    these are all issues that are only going to become more critical as election time approaches. this is exactly how george herbert lost the election in 92, despite being the man who led america to victory in the gulf war.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Of course, the funny part about this is that it is money that we don't even have considering that our national bank account is in the red so that W can give out the equivalent of quick cash payday loans to the top 1% and his corporate benefactors.
     
  10. Timing

    Timing Member

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    I'm glad I didn't watch. I didn't figure I'd miss too much we haven't heard already.
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    What a wooden performance devoid of substance

    I tried to talk about the substance, but I agree the tone was wooden. Every now and then he has one of these speeches, usually short where commentators have said he looks sedated. This was one.

    Perhaps it is just that he needs weeks to rehearse and Rhove told him he had to crank this one out fast , based on the polls.

    They should start calling Bush The Stepford President.

    Deckard you caught the tone and his appearance incredibly correct.

    I suppose the ditto heads got lathered up about Iraq and 911 and not wanting to be seen as "weak" or "decadent" , but I wonder how those who generally supported Bush, but are worried about the IRAQ thing are ging to respond. I just find it so hard to believe that this reassured them.
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Do you think it's possible that we we will have the usual suspects come on and proclaim that Bush kicked ass?
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    No, they'll just say this is a bunnch of mindless bushbashing .

    It actually is. His inadequacies are so glaringly obvious at this point I get tired of crapping on him, it's a little passe.

    On a somewhat unrelated note, I saw a really hot chick with huge hammers walking around yesterday in a tight cutoff t shirt that said "LICk BUSH 2004" I was real impressed with her, uh, politics.
     
  14. Zion

    Zion Member

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    Listen to this little anecdote. One of my cousins works in a prominent engineering company in Baghdad- we’ll call the company H. This company is well-known for designing and building bridges all over Iraq. My cousin, a structural engineer, is a bridge freak. He spends hours talking about pillars and trusses and steel structures to anyone who’ll listen.

    As May was drawing to a close, his manager told him that someone from the CPA wanted the company to estimate the building costs of replacing the New Diyala Bridge on the South East end of Baghdad. He got his team together, they went out and assessed the damage, decided it wasn’t too extensive, but it would be costly. They did the necessary tests and analyses (mumblings about soil composition and water depth, expansion joints and girders) and came up with a number they tentatively put forward- $300,000. This included new plans and designs, raw materials (quite cheap in Iraq), labor, contractors, travel expenses, etc.

    Let’s pretend my cousin is a dolt. Let’s pretend he hasn’t been working with bridges for over 17 years. Let’s pretend he didn’t work on replacing at least 20 of the 133 bridges damaged during the first Gulf War. Let’s pretend he’s wrong and the cost of rebuilding this bridge is four times the number they estimated- let’s pretend it will actually cost $1,200,000. Let’s just use our imagination.

    A week later, the New Diyala Bridge contract was given to an American company. This particular company estimated the cost of rebuilding the bridge would be around- brace yourselves- $50,000,000 !!...

    http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
     
  15. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    and werent we told that the reconstruction of iraq would be paid for w/ iraqi oil? now dubbya has the audacity to ask for money from the very countries that opposed us invading in the first place! its bad enough that the we are having to shell out so much when our economy is already in the crapper, but to ask other countries to help clean up our mess is embarrasing. america has been reduced to begging for change, like a petchoulli-stink drag rat. and dubbya tries to turn it around and say that other countries have an obligation to help b/c it is for WORLD security.

    you screwed up dubbya, just admit it!
     
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Thats the funny thing. The Iraqi oil industry, which is pretty much using 1970's technology at this point and is in horrible shape by all accounts, may, over the long term, as currently no companies wold be stupid enough to invest there, eventually pay for the reconstruction of the Iraqi oil industry.
     
  17. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    I just now watched the speech again.

    This is his worst speech since 9/11. It had nothing new except the price tag, which was enough to choke a goat.
     
  18. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Interesting timing: Yesterday, Bush was begging for $87 billion we don't have. Tomorrow, Congress will vote on the biggest tax cut in history.
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Television viewers on Sunday night had a choice of two George W. Bushes. They could see him standing tall on a Showtime docudrama on 9/11 (produced by a prominent Hollywood conservative), in which a heroic Bush all but exclaims "damn the torpedoes" before all but parachuting Rambo-like into Afghanistan to capture Osama bin Laden single-handedly. (Remember bin Laden?) Or they could watch the real thing stiffly read a speech in which he did little than to urge Americans and allies to buck up and stay his course.

    There's nothing like dropping to a 52-percent approval rating to send a president--especially a wartime president--rushing to the Cabinet room ( sans table) to deliver a primetime speech declaring "great progress." Bush both reiterated that Iraq was a crucial battle in the war against terrorism and asserted it now is "the central front." On the first point, he had nothing to say--literally--to back up his prewar assertions. He did not address the where-are-the-weapons criticism he has received over the past few months. Instead, he hailed his invasion for having overturned a regime that "sponsored terror" and "possessed and used weapons of mass destruction." Possessed and used, that is, if one looks back to the Iraq of the 1980s (when Saddam Hussein was being courted by the Reagan and Bush I administrations). In all his advocacy for war, Bush never based his case on a two-decades-old weapons charge. His argument was that Hussein had unconventional weapons now (not in the 1980s or early 1990s) and that this tyrant was sponsoring a particular set of terrorists, namely al Qaeda. None of that has proven true, and the available evidence to date supports the notion that Bush was lying to the American public. So as Bush continues to adhere to his pre-invasion fibs, what credibility does he carry when he now maintains he is willing to cooperate with other nations in the rebuilding of Iraq (as long as they pony up)?

    But Bush's argument that Iraq was key to the war on terrorism has become self-fulfilling due to his own actions. It appears that the occupation has led to the rise of a terrorist claque within Iraq, attracting jihadists from elsewhere. US troops are indeed confronting terrorists in Mesopotamia. (What else do you call the brutal killers behind the blast at the UN compound?) Bush may have succeeded in achieving what neither bin Laden nor Hussein could have done: uniting the secular Ba'athists and the fundamentalist Islamic fascists. Iraq has become the frontline because Bush sent in the Marines--and the Army, Navy, and Air Force. Yet he keeps on pushing the neoconnish line that if Iraq were to be transformed into a democracy, that would be a blow to terrorists everywhere--especially the terrorists who aim to strike the United States. There remains no indication that Hussein enabled the mass-murderers of 9/11. So Bush's theory is just that--an assertion that may or may not be true. He told his television audience that the triumph of democracy and tolerance in Iraq would be a "grave setback to terrorists." Certainly, this triumph would be a good thing--but there is no telling whether or not such a development would have any impact upon the terrorist threat America faces.

    During the speech, Bush also maintained that American misadventures in Beirut and Somalia (the first authored by Reagan; the second initiated by Bush the Elder) were partial causes of 9/11. These episodes--in which Washington ended up cutting and running--supposedly led anti-American terrorists like bin Laden to see the United States as a soft foe and, consequently, encouraged them to take on America. Indeed, bin Laden and others had wondered about US resolve, though I'd be willing to wager that bin Laden did assume that the 9/11 attack would result in serious payback. Bush dumbs down the analysis. "Terrorist attacks," he said, "are not caused by the use of strength. They are invited by the perception of weakness." Bush's self-acclaimed boldness, though, has given the terrorists in Iraq--whoever they are--more chances to kill Americans. The use of strength does not necessarily provide a disincentive to terrorists. See Israel. The goal should be the smart use of strength. But Bush is now depicting the Iraq war as justified because it sent a don't-mess-with-us message. And he argues, in a way, that the United States is now stuck with this message, like it or not. After all, would turning tail enhance American security?

    Perhaps it might. If that would mean internationalizing the redevelopment of Iraq. Bush, who was willing to go to war alone, now says he is committed to a more multilateral approach in Iraq. But it's unclear what he is offering to allies--except the opportunity to pay for his occupation. In his address, he remarked that members of the international community must assume "a broader role" and that "past differences" cannot interfere with "present duties." But his administration was quick to snub the French and to signal that nations that went along with Bush's march to war would be rewarded, while those who resisted would be punished. In his speech, Bush also called for the Iraqis to get with the program, noting that "now they must rise to the responsibilities of a free people." A point of clarification: they are not a free people. The occupation authority has canceled local elections and still exercises censorship over some media. After first promising a speedy hand-off of power to the Iraqis, the US occupation authority then slowed the transition and, of late, has been trying to quicken the pace, perhaps to rid itself of sole responsibility for governing a problem-wracked nation.

    In demanding that Iraqis meet their obligations, Bush seemed rather ungracious. He still has been unable to provide the security needed for political revival in Iraq. Members of the Iraqi governing council--who were handpicked by the Americans--have bitterly complained that the occupation authority has not responded to their requests for additional security for themselves. And it is clear that the Bush administration never had a plan on how it would "rise to the responsibilities" of an occupying power and provide security and generate economic development.

    In his short address, Bush announced the occupation would cost at least $87 billion in the coming year. He offered no explanation of how he would pay for that. He did not say, Sorry, but we're going to have to ask the major beneficiaries of the latest round of tax cuts--millionaires, investors, and the like--to do with a little less. Or, There's going to be less Medicare coverage for our seniors, but that's the price of defending freedom. Bush vowed he would do "whatever is necessary." But that does include asking Americans to make any sacrifices (other than those who serve in the military). Presumably, Bush will just charge it--add the price of the occupation to an already bulging deficit and let someone else worry about it down the road. Once more, this is hardly rising to responsibility.

    Bush is in a fix. He's stuck in his Iraqmire. He did not prepare the country for a long drawn-out endeavor in Iraq, which keeps on claiming the lives of Americans. In fact, before the war, some Bush aides claimed that this would be a no-fuss occupation. Now Bush has little choice but to resort to the usual rah-rah about resolve. He points fingers at the international community and the Iraqis, failing, of course, to acknowledge his own miscalculations. And he's looking a tad desperate. Don't expect a Showtime sequel covering Bush's days as an occupier.

    speech
     
  20. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    I saw the first part of the speech and I bought it. If we can develop democracies in Afganistan and Iraq it would go a long way to reshaping the Islamic world where we could live with them peacefully. But giving demoracy to an 18th century world that has never know anything but theocracy and fudelism is like teaching calculus in kindergarten, they have no concept.

    The figure of 87 Billion really has less negative impact on the US national debt than it appears. If the money goes to US companies to export infrastructure it stimulates incomes, profits and taxes. Securing Iraqi oil production will have a stablilizing effect on energy prices which is good for the US economy. Flooding the international market with US treasuries ties the economic interest of the exporting economies more with US econmic interest.

    But 87 Billion? Couldn't we just give every Iraqi and Afgahn citizen a $100,000 and a first class ticket to NY.
     

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