Bush resorts to comparing war on terror to WW2, thus losing the argument per Godwin's Law. http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Godwin's_Law
"Many people have extended Godwin's Law to imply that the invoking of the Nazis as a debating tactic (in any argument not directly related to World War II or the Holocaust) automatically loses the argument, simply because these events were so horrible that any comparison to any event less serious than genocide or extinction is invalid and in poor taste." Uh... yep. Good sign of a weak argument.
Bush Likens War Against Terrorism to WWII 32 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo! By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_23 AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - President Bush (news - web sites), preparing new Air Force officers for war, cast the fight against terrorism as a struggle between freedom and tyranny similar to World War II and the Cold War. "Our goal, the goal of this generation, is the same," Bush said Wednesday, after referring to World War II. "We will secure our nation and defend the peace through the forward march of freedom." Bush told 981 graduates that they will be joining a war whose central front is Iraq (news - web sites). "Each of you receiving a commission today in the United States military will also carry the hopes of free people everywhere," the president said. The graduates wore dress uniforms of white pants, blue tunics and gold sashes around their waists. Bush spoke in the academy's football stadium — at more than 7,000 feet above sea level — under partly cloudy and breezy skies. Attorney General John Ashcroft (news - web sites) and Rep. Heather Wilson, R-N.M., an Air Force Academy graduate, were among the officials who joined Bush on stage. Bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq, Bush has argued, will undercut the stagnation and despair that feeds the extremist ideologies of al-Qaida and its terrorist allies. The president's trip to Colorado came after he voiced his support Tuesday for the interim Iraqi government taking shape before the scheduled June 30 transfer of political power from the U.S.-run Coalition Provisional Authority. Bush praised the newly chosen prime minister, Iyad Allawi, and president, Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer, as part of democracy's vanguard in Iraq. The new Air Force officers will enter a military strained by an occupation of Iraq that has become increasingly violent in the past two months. Bush and other administration officials say they expect the violence to continue, even after the caretaker government takes over in July. Plans call for elections in Iraq by January to form a fully independent Iraqi government. The U.S.-led military coalition in Iraq will remain largely in control of Iraqi security until then, and Pentagon (news - web sites) officials say they expect to keep about 135,000 American troops in Iraq until at least the end of 2005. Bush this week is repeating his pledges to stay the course in Iraq despite the surging violence and the failure so far to neutralize anti-American fighters from Sunni extremists around Baghdad to followers of a radical Shiite cleric in southern Iraq. "We will finish what we have begun and we will win this essential victory in the war on terror," Bush said at a fund-raising dinner in Denver Tuesday night. American forces have not found the weapons of mass destruction stockpiles Bush cited as a primary justification for the March 2003 invasion. And officials have not announced any evidence directly linking Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) to al-Qaida or the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Still, Bush is pressing his assertion that toppling Saddam and installing democracy in Iraq is an indispensable goal in the wider war on terrorism. "Part of winning the war on terror is spreading freedom and democracy in the Middle East," Bush told reporters at the White House before leaving for Colorado on Tuesday. Colorado is important to Bush for more than the Air Force Academy. Bush wants the nine electoral votes from a state he won four years ago, 51 percent to 42 percent for Al Gore (news - web sites). Republicans also want to keep the Senate seat of retiring Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell. Bush raised more than $2.2 million for the Republican Party at Tuesday night's event, for which couples paid $5,000 or more to attend. Bush called his Democratic rival, Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites), soft on the war on terrorism. Bush's speech also is an opportunity for the Air Force Academy to polish its image in the wake of a sexual abuse scandal. Air Force Secretary James Roche replaced the top four officials of the school last year after dozens of female cadets complained they had been raped or sexually assaulted and their attackers were given light punishment or no punishment at all. Several dozen Bush supporters cheered and waved campaign signs along the road into the academy, which is nestled in the Rocky Mountain foothills near Pikes Peak. Bush Air Force Address Focuses on Iraq's Future Wednesday, June 02, 2004 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,121562,00.html WASHINGTON — President Bush gave the commencement address Wednesday at the Air Force Academy, reinforcing that America must stay on the offensive to combat terrorism and that the rebuilding of Iraq is a priority. "History is once again witnessing a great clash," Bush said, adding that the conflict is not between civilizations or religions but "a clash of political visions." White House officials hope Bush's address will set the tone for a series of meetings he is scheduled to have over the next few days with foreign leaders both overseas and at home. Bush wants to rally support for the new Iraqi government that has been formed to assume sovereignty on June 30. "Liberty is not the invention of western culture, it is the deepest need and hope of all humanity," he said. "We bring more than a vision to this conflict -- we bring a strategy, which will lead to victory." Bush is also expected to compare the terrorist agenda with the vision of countries like the United States, who want freedom in the Middle East (search). "Each of you receiving a commission today in the U.S. military will also carry the hopes of free people everywhere," Bush said to the 981 graduates Wednesday. "During a global conflict that will define your careers, you'll be called upon to take brave action and serve great honor." Bush compared the current military conflict to wars of the past. "In some ways this struggle we're in is unique, in other ways it resembles the great clashes of the last century. Our goal, the goal of this generation, is the same. We will secure our nation and defend the peace through the forward march of freedom."
I thought Carter gave a lousy speech, but Bush is in a class by himself. The guy is just awful. Awful. I saw a lot of this thing and couldn't help wondering how our Republican friends could see it and not feel like they were under the drill at the dentist's office. My apologies to any dentists out there.
Anyone notice the difference between Faux News and Yahoo's coverage of this speech? Faux News made no mention of comparing the war on terrorism and WWII. Perhaps even the Bush Propaganda channel thought it was a reach.
don't you just love that Fox News makes no mention of the ridiculous comparison to WWII, except in a vague reference at the end to "past wars," while the rest of the media is pointing out how crazy that comparison is. The BBC is thankfully already grilling Bush for it and I imagine everyone else will too. EDIT: You beat me to it Tex
This Goodwin's Law is more interesting than Bush's speech. As for the speech: it's rhetoric; no politician can function without it. Aren't we all used to this by now? As for Goodwin's Law, it seems to be a very good one as officially formulated ("As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.") All the permutations, especially those about the success of one's argument, seem weak. Sometimes, such a comparison is warranted, and sometimes it isn't. There is a tendency to put Nazi barbarity on a pedestal as if it were supernatural or something. While it was a superb feat of evil, it is one I have every confidence can and will be matched. The subject reminds me though of a trend in moral philosophy (I forgot what they liked to call themselves) to dispense with all the loaded philosophical terms inherited from the great minds of the past and write in plain English. One of the defining features of this trend was the use of examples in which the Nazis would often be prominently positioned. It has a nice expediency to it, because they can used to create some rather stark contrasts.
In my opinion, the degree to which the Hitler/Nazi aspect of comparative history is so automatically precluded from discussion is silly, simple minded, and indicative of a desire to avoid over one to learn. There are many,many aspects with which a comparison to Hitler/Nazis makes perfect sense. I'm not sure Bush's comparison is clear enough in order to guage it's merit, but the premise that it is ridiculous simply because it's Hitler is without grounds. There have always been things which many consider 'the worst', and often those are a matter of opinion, not fact. Either way, to say X compares to Y in respect to Z is not to say X is Y. We are so pre-conditioned re: the Nazis that we might overlook valuable lessons of history merely because we are so caught up with the entirety of what they represent to us. That is my position on this, and it remains consistent with what I have always said, irrespective of who is doing the comparison. As such, I fully expect those who have previously said that any comparison to the Nazis is ridiculous to either similarly condemn Bush's position, or to acknowledge their biased perspective. I'm sure you know who you are.
Yes, Macbeth, Godwin's Law says the probability will approach one but not become greater than one. But this does not speak of a "desire" so much. It is simple mathematics.
Glad to have you back. I don't care what anyone else says when you're not here, I believe that, properly medicated, you can lead a full and worthwhile life, and besides, institutionalization has been an overused band-aid for far too long. I support your freedom, Bob, and believe in you.
Dude, don't you have some flying around in a freaking leotard to do? Yeah, thought so. Later, Mr. Roboto wannabe.
This is really strange. I could have sworn, fromn personal experience, that there were a a great number of Bush suporters who felt that no comparison with the Nazis, WWII etc. was remotely valid unless it equated perfectly, on all levles, including the subjective ones. Not even if you were saying something like ''Personal freedoms and questioning of authority sacrificed for the sake of national security was the kind of thinking that allowed Hitler to gain immoderate control of the state, and the state of the people." Or people who said that the use of nukes said nothing about the US, because it was an entirely different situation, not at all relevant. Or those who said that mentioning that we didn;t enter the war until we had no choice was not indicative of contemporary US priorities, as we are so different. I even remember a lot of dismissal of our Cold War activivites as 'of the time', and having no bearing on the present. In my recollection, many of these people seemed extremely vehement in their assertions of irrelevance. Must have been my imagination. Otherwise those same people would be equally insensed about this, I presume.
I think Bush actually sharked the jump with this one kids... What is truly and irrefutably jumping the shark is the ole, Vietnam comparison...c'mon leftys spray it one more time for our entertainment purposes...except Gore (he might blow big chunks this time around)...
