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Bush and Hoover...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Mulder, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    "Bush is doing something Bill Clinton didn't do, his father didn't do..."
    This is the way the new MoveOn ad starts. I'll leave the ending for those interested.
    Just another "unAmerican" group trying to cloud the Presidential race with those pesky facts.
    Hoover & Bush MPEG
    Hoover & Bush Real Player
     
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    They certainly didn't say anything that isn't true, unfortunately.
     
  3. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Bush and Nixon...
    ___________
    The Making of the President: The Nixon in Bush


    By Dana Milbank

    Tuesday, November 25, 2003; Page A27


    The president tells aides he wants to "go over the heads of the reporters" in order to "circumvent" a "hostile press." He later describes his effort to "tell my story directly to the people rather than funnel it to them through a press account."

    The year: 1969. The president: Richard M. Nixon.

    Yet Nixon's words are eerily similar to those uttered last month by President Bush. "I'm mindful of the filter through which some news travels, and somehow you just got to go over the heads of the filter and speak directly to the people," he said in an interview with regional broadcaster Hearst-Argyle in one such bid to circumvent what he perceives as a hostile press.

    To Nixon historian David Greenberg, it is one of many similarities in style between the two men. From the way they structure their administrations to their many escapes to Camp David and the prominence of American flags on the lapel pins of aides, the likenesses are powerful.

    "Ideologically, Bush is the son of Reagan; stylistically, he's the son of Nixon," said Greenberg, who teaches at Yale and just published a book on Nixon's image titled "Nixon's Shadow."

    Reagan, of course, is a far more desirable comparison for Bush. His allies regularly compare him to the Gipper, and Bush himself has been regularly invoking the 40th president in recent events, hailing Reagan's "mandate for leadership" on Veterans Day, signing abortion legislation in the Ronald Reagan Building, and describing his Middle East policy as an extension of Reaganism in a major foreign policy speech on Nov. 6. Vice President Cheney routinely mentions that "our administration has delivered the largest tax-relief package since Ronald Reagan lived in the White House."

    Poor Nixon hasn't had a presidential mention since February, and then only in the context of his piano playing.

    In several ways, Bush does have more in common with Reagan than Nixon. Like Reagan, Bush leads with straightforwardness rather than with Nixonian nuance and complexity. Like Reagan, Bush is far closer to the conservative base than was Nixon, forever distrusted by the right because of his secret dealings with Nelson Rockefeller. And Bush, sunny and optimistic like Reagan, shows no sign of the Nixon paranoia.

    And though Bush frets about leaks and his aides have boasted of a "leak-free White House," nobody has seriously accused Bush of the heavier-handed Nixon techniques such as wiretaps and Plumbers, nor the sort of dishonesty or lawlessness that caused the Watergate scandal.

    But there are many similarities in their style.

    Bush, for example, structures his White House much as Nixon did. Nixon governed largely with four other men: Henry A. Kissinger, H.R. Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman and Charles Colson. This is not unlike the "iron triangle" of aides who led Bush's campaign and the handful of underlings now -- Cheney, chief of staff Andrew H. Card Jr., national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and communications director Dan Bartlett -- who are in on most top decisions. Nixon essentially ended the tradition of powerful Cabinets in favor of a few powerful White House aides -- a model Bush has followed.

    The most striking similarity is in the area of secrecy and what Nixon staffers called "managing the news." Nixon created the White House Office of Communications, the office that has become the center of Bush's vaunted "message discipline."

    Then, as now, journalists complained about a lack of news conferences. In turn, the administration complained of "instant analysis and querulous criticism." Those words, from Vice President Spiro Agnew, were close to Bartlett's complaints about "analysis" and "commentary" in newspaper articles.

    And while watchdog entities such as Congress's General Accounting Office and the Sept. 11 panel have complained of the Bush administration's withholding of information, a National Press Club panel accused Nixon, before Watergate, of "an unprecedented, government-wide effort to control, restrict and conceal information."

    Although the Bush White House has many Reagan and Ford officials, there are few Nixonians in the house. Still, the man guiding Bush's strategy came of age politically during the bitter late days of Nixon's tenure.

    During the late days of the Watergate scandal, as "the White House mood grew funereal," Greenberg writes, a George Mason University student "circulated memos from the faux-grass-roots Americans for the Presidency, urging phone calls to the Judiciary Committee; congressmen, they warned, were getting "swept up by the lynch-mob atmosphere created in this city by the Washington Post and other parts of the Nixon-hating media."

    The student was Karl Rove. Had young Rove succeeded in that effort 30 years ago, Bush today might well be celebrating Nixon for more than his piano skills.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Economy grew at 8.2% last quarter. Do you guys read the news?
     
  5. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Sure we do. Wake me up when the 3 million jobs that have been lost under Bush are recreated, OK?
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Why are you obsessed with Bush? It was Clinton's fault. (No I'm not obsessed with Clinton).
     
  7. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    I will buy that the economy is cyclical, and that Bush is not completely to blame, but please don't try and pin this on slick willie, that just makes you look desperate. :rolleyes:
     
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Sort of how you guys are trying to pin it on Bush? Yep, it applies to you guys as well.
     
  9. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    and your point is what? That you were wrong to pin it all on Bush or that I didn't try and pin all the economies woes on Bush?
     
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    That you shouldn't pin it all on Bush just like I pinned it all on Clinton.
     
  11. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    crappy no edit... that should read "that you were wrong to pin it all on Clinton..." arrrgggh
     
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I think I got the jist of it
     
  13. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    Did I? I don't think that I did? Did I not just say that it was cyclical to at least some degree?
     
  14. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    So Coolidge was to blame for what happened to Hoover?
     
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I blame FDR for turning a recession into a depression. But I support him on WWII however.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    From your first post it seems like that is the case.
     
  17. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    So WWII was the only reason the economy bounced back? Is it possible then that our recent growth could be related to this current war?
     
  18. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    I also wanted to add that FDR came into office with 23% unemployment. That is not a recession.
     
  19. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    It's likely a buildup of eventual GDP criss-crossing the aims of administration implementation and arriving at a time when consumers feel encouraged and the economic model lends itself at a time when goods and services are most attractive...
     
  20. MoBalls

    MoBalls Member

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    I visit the D&D and you guys are talking about women and vacuums...........
     

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