http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/10/21/mideast.blast.scene.reut/index.html I didn't see this posted.
What are you complaining about? Azadre, like me, doesnt want to cry in outrage everytime someone dies in the world. I dont want to live that depressing of a life.
Sticking your head in the sand, DrewP, doesn't help anyone. 'Crying in outrage' differs from a disdain for the deaths, no? Azadre has expressed a strong disagreement with Israel's policies. If that disagreement has become a disregard for human life, then he's headed the wrong way. Your sure that you feel tha same?
Azadre, I think you need to re-think comments like that. Every individual killed for no reason had a family and the same rights to life and liberty that anyone else should have. I am quite outspoken on my feelings towards the occupation of the Territories in Israel, but the bombing of a bus is a wreched act that will cause no good to come out of it. If you don't like Israel's policies that is one issue, but innocent lives were lost.
please tell us you don't mean what it SOUNDS like you're saying here. a month or so back you said something that i questioned as well about targetting innocent people...and from your post it was implied that you thought it might be ok to strike at citizens of a democratic nation because they ARE the government in those nations. I called you out on it...and it made me really mad...which in turn made you really mad...and you ended up saying, "i hate you, MadMax" or something like that...and i apologized for interpreting your post that way, given my assumption that you didn't actually mean it that way. but if you mean this post as it seems you do...to gloss over the death of innocent people as "no big deal...happens every day," then i retract my apology from last month and am satisfied with being the target of your hatred.
I'm just saying that I dont feel it necessary to bury myself in every death around the world. But I shouldnt of posted anything.
I am only saying that people die all over the world, so why not cover every death I wish I wouldn't have to wake up to "six die in car bombing" or "Israeli soldiers kill 10 children". Both side are wrong.
Good clarification, Azadre. I think those of us who aren't just trying to paint you as an anti-semite, or whatever, understand. I think that if we are going to have more meaningful Israel-Palestinian threads we should focus on what is to be done. I don't think that it is that helpful to try to decide if the Palestinian are more or less to be blamed for sucide bombers killing innocent civilians than the Israelis are to be blamed for killing rock throwing 10 year olds or sending rockets into an apartment complex or densily populated block to kill one Hamas leader leading inexorably to killing innocent civilians. What is interesting to me is that here we have Cohen, for instance, and myself who agree on so many things-- settlments are wrong, Sharon is worsening things, a two state solution, and yet we can't seemingly agree on one detail that would move from the status quo. I have proposed cutting back on Israel's foreign aid to send a message. ( I don't believe there is much US aid to the Palestinians to cut back). I have proposed UN peacekeepers to keep both sides from being killed. I propose no visits from Sharon and government till they behave better. ( We already have a policy of not letting Arafat visit). Maybe I've forgotten, but I can't think of one concrete step Cohen has proposed aside from statements like "I just want the violence by both sides to end." or "both sides are at fault and I deplore the deaths on both sides. Cohen, if you believe that Sharon and settlement expansion is a problem, and deplore the violence on both sides, can you give us some concrete steps that the US government or we as US citizens can do to help lead to a two state solution and avoid the continual bloodshed. If you oppose Sharon, why not encourage our government to take the necessary steps to isolate him and encourage democratic "regime change" in Israel? Is it enough to just deplore the violence on both sides?
I have a solution. Go back to the pre-1967 borders, on the condition that the first incident of violence from the Palestinians would allow Israel to annex Palestine and run it as Israel sees fit. Then we will see if the Palestinians only want their own state and are otherwise a peaceful people as so many liberals would have us believe. Unless Israel has some recourse if the violence does not stop, they have no reason to make concessions to Palestine.
Stupidmoniker, that is the game that Sharon and others want to play. One act of violence by the crazies of Hamas is give the power to derail whatever peace process is going on. A similar level of stupidity would be proposing that Israelis just agree to go back to the countries they came from and/or agree to share the whole space as one country with the Palestinians, the first time a crazy settler type kills a Palestian needlessly.
Violence brings violence. It is a never ending cycle. There will be no peace in the Middle East until both sides gain new leadership that knows this and is willing to forge a new understanding.
Originally posted by glynch Good clarification, Azadre. I think those of us who aren't just trying to paint you as an anti-semite, or whatever, understand. ... What an absolutely reprehensible remark. Azadre consistently speaks up when Palestinian citizens are killed, which is a good thing. But to make a statement like he did about other people dying, Israeli or otherwise, is disgusting. 'People die all over the world' ? Then why does he speak his mind when innocent Palestinians are killed? He can only hide behind that 'people die all over the world' obfuscation with idiots...anyone see one around here? Was he labeled anti-semite by anyone? A post like Azadre's about innocent civilians dying is quite simply...hateful. It shouldn't be allowed to go unchallenged, but of course we then can have some 'empathetic' leftist defending his comment because he thinks that he's been labeled anti-semitic. Someone kick me in the ass if I ever take glynch off ignore again. I'm a damn fool.
Yep, it is much better to make the Israelis make all of the concessions without any assurance of peace or recourse if their situation does not improve. If the Palestinians are to be believed, there would be no cause for violence since my solution gives them everything they want. The rael reason the Palestininans (as well as you) don't like this solution is that we all know they will never be satisfied while Israel still exists.
Originally posted by Azadre How long has it been since I have reported a palestian/israeli article? Uh. So know you're going to claim that you have never expressed a concern for Palestinians getting killed? You might want to just admit you had a temporary lapse in judgement and move on.
I am still for palestian causes, but they aren't going at it the right way. The reason I asked how long has it been was to show, I am sick of hearing about people dying. Both sides are CURRENTLY wrong, and until reforms happen on the Israeli side too, nothing will happen. Zionists and Hamas suck, I don't like either of them, even if they do alot for their side.
Originally posted by Azadre I am still for palestian causes, but they aren't going at it the right way. The reason I asked how long has it been was to show, I am sick of hearing about people dying. Both sides are CURRENTLY wrong, and until reforms happen on the Israeli side too, nothing will happen. Zionists and Hamas suck, I don't like either of them, even if they do alot for their side. That's all great. We're in agreement on all of those points. Now, would you have made that comment if it was 10 Palestinian civilians killed by the Israeli military?
