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Building Teams Using Quantative Analsyis in the NBA: The Last Rites

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Carl Herrera, Oct 4, 2010.

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  1. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    http://blogmaverick.com/2010/10/03/...paign=Feed:+blogmaverick/tyiP+(blog+maverick)

    Interesting blog post by Mark Cuban, who uses as much "advanced stats" as anyone else in making moves.
     
    #1 Carl Herrera, Oct 4, 2010
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Morey Faints



    But seriously...no kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe it's taken this long.
     
    #2 MadMax, Oct 4, 2010
  3. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    He's jealous because he does not have Mr. Intangibles.
     
    #3 Cohete Rojo, Oct 4, 2010
  4. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    His team probably stopped using advanced stats because those stats told them it was a good idea to trade for Jason Kidd.
     
    #4 Steve_Francis_rules, Oct 4, 2010
  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    He forgot to factor in the owner's effect on team building.
     
    #5 Easy, Oct 4, 2010
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Then why did he get Jason Kidd?
     
    #6 Mr. Clutch, Oct 4, 2010
  7. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    Cleverly disguised Get Away From The Quant Stats, Its OUR Only Advantage.
     
    #7 Shroopy2, Oct 4, 2010
  8. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Probably because everyone else was making fancy trades near the trade deadline and he didn't want to be left out. Standing pat is never cool near the deadline, even though I would bet most of the championship teams do it.
     
    #8 TheFreak, Oct 4, 2010
  9. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    He also let Nash go. Brilliant.
     
    #9 Mr. Clutch, Oct 4, 2010
  10. ICanDunkOnYao

    ICanDunkOnYao Member

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    *cough Pau Gasol
     
    #10 ICanDunkOnYao, Oct 4, 2010
  11. tierre_brown

    tierre_brown Member

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    Why can't Mark Cuban spell knuckleheads?
     
    #11 tierre_brown, Oct 4, 2010
  12. wikiwiki

    wikiwiki Member

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    Morey's been saying this for years, in pretty much every interview where he gets asked about the use of stats in the NBA.

    Stats have always been a major part of team-building even traditionally, and replacing those traditional stats with more meaningful stats is obviously beneficial. But it's obviously not the answer. This is real life, not a video game.


    Even more importantly, in the long-term, sciences like this don't stay secret, and every team in the NBA is going to eventually get to a level where they use the same advanced stats and understand them well. So advantage will again devolve to less quantifiable measures, and unorthodox gambles in interpretation of those stats.
     
    #12 wikiwiki, Oct 4, 2010
  13. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Cuban's actual point is a lot more modest than the title to the blog entry suggests.

    Cuban said:

    You can use them as partial input along with scouting and other elements, but there ain’t no Moneyball solution or the NBA and I don’t see Bill James walking through that door with a solution. Stats will continue to play a role in lineups, matchups and trends, but teambuilding, not so much.​

    He's not saying quantitative factors have no place in basketball, he's just saying that you can't use them the same way you can in baseball. Baseball is, basically, a series of 1-on-1 matchups with very very limited "teamwork involved." As such, you can essentially evaluate players by looking exclusively at a spreadsheet. Cannot do that in basketball. Different kinds of stats ("traditional" or "advancted") tell you things about a player, but you can't just pick the best players by looking at, say, PER or Win Produced or Wins Over Replacement Player, or +/-, without gather non-quantitative info.

    Daryl Morey has made the same point many times-- that basketball is very different than baseball and the quantitative stuff is a part of their player evaluation, but is far from the sole determining factor.
     
    #13 Carl Herrera, Oct 4, 2010
  14. RV6

    RV6 Member

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    So you acquire the "nicest" guys within the top advanced stats and a coach who's system has been proven to result in a lot of wins? Is that how you also take into account chemistry and coaching?
     
    #14 RV6, Oct 4, 2010
  15. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    The Lakers didn't win the title the year they brought in Gasol.
     
    #15 Steve_Francis_rules, Oct 4, 2010
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Being at the forefront in the statistical analysis movement is one thing, but he is always speaking like he is an expert. Is he though? What is his pedigree? Does he simply employ a stats department or does he actually play a role in this stuff? I know he likes to think he does...
     
    #16 Ziggy, Oct 4, 2010
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    In the spirit of your question, why can a mathematician (or at least former math teacher) not spell "quantitative"? :)
     
    #17 AroundTheWorld, Oct 4, 2010
  18. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    It's a ****ing Muslim conspiracy to take away your ****ing freedom you ****ing twit.
     
    #18 Carl Herrera, Oct 4, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    Van Gundier:

    [​IMG]
     
    #19 AroundTheWorld, Oct 4, 2010
  20. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Member

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    Bill James disagrees with you. Vehemently.
     
    #20 Buck Turgidson, Oct 5, 2010
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