Brooks/Lowry: Creating by keeping the dribble in the paint

not all pg's can do what the nash's and chris paul's of the league can. we don't really have a starting pg. we have 2 back up pg's. both better than rafer though.

 

Of course not, but the point that the OP makes is that Brooks (and to a lesser extent Lowry) have the physical skill set to use this kind of technique that the elite PGs in the league use. And while you can't teach a guy to jump higher, you can teach him to take smart shots.

I'd imagine that Brooks especially could be looking to repenetrate instead of scampering back to the perimeter. Perhaps it's not something that Adelman encourages in his system?

 

oh really? i personally don't think they are able to get into the paint and then keep their dribble and get another shot for an open teammate nor get a better shot off for themselves. me personally, plus they are asked to score. we don't have anyone else that can drive and score like they do. we have 2 SF's playing the wings, and they are better as spot up shooters IMO, battier we know is a spot up shooter and has that left handed hook shot, and ariza, although more athletic isn't much better.

our point guards aren't asked to create a la nash and paul, rather they are asked to score due to the lack of anyone else who can do what they can.
and no, i don't think they can average 10 apg even if given nash, paul type minutes.

 

I actually noticed Brooks in particular doing this at the beginning of the season. Especially in the first couple games, but he never did it again for some reason.

 

Youre naming the greatest pgs in the league. I dont think our guys are up there yet.

 

Anytime you are comparing your pg to Chris Paul it is probably not going to end well. You have to accept that there are somethings your point guard can not do. For AB, I think the reason he runs back out to the perimeter is because he honestly can't see the floor from the paint. When he gets down low and is surrounded by bodies, his vision is highly restricted and thus he is unable to find teammates or get an idea of the defenses placement. This lack of vision is evident for anyone who has watched him dribble through an open space of the court and straight into double teams or traps. Hopefully with time he can develop instincts and practice to know where and when to go. But as it stands the three point line is the only place he can actually read a defense.

In the case of lowry, his biggest issue is the same thing that makes him so much fun to watch. He is a hard-nosed player who loves contact and will put his head down and drive to the rim. The problem is that he literally puts his head down and never considers stopping or probing the defense. He, like brooks is still a young player who could develop. Some players are blessed with point guard instincts, but many have to learn them with time.

 

Hmm. I think I'll chime in on this one. I agree with what you say about our point guards. Another thing that bothers me is when Brooks dribbles into about the free throw line and then picks up his dribble without knowing where he is going to go next.

I think what those other PG's you mentioned have right now is big men in the middle. Once they get into the paint they try to draw a defender off a big and then get it to his big. Another factor is Brooks and Lowry are smaller than those other guards and maybe don't feel as confident in getting their shot off when the defender stays as those other guys. What they do have in their favor is speed and that is why I think you see them try to blow by the other team more often. Lowry may be able to get more like those other PG's because he can fend off defenders with his body but it is still hard for him to get his shots off over people without a running start and since we currently don't have a really good big man to dump it too it makes it tougher for him.

 

A large part of that might be offensive philosophy. All the cross screens, cuts, and picks are set up in the elbow or near the pain area. The way our offense runs with motions, double picks and backcuts, having the ball in the lane may cause too much clutter.

 

Great thread.

The hesitation dribble and keping your dribble in the paint is not a physical skill that cannot be obtained. OP isn't asking for them to become taller, bigger or jump higher. Nor is it asking a bad shooter to become a good shooter overnight.

Op's talking about player development, like Hakeem adding a weapon to his arsenal every offseason.

Frankly, AB and Lowry have no excuse for not developing these skills at least to some degree. It's a discipline that can be learned. I think it's lame to let AB and Lowry off the hook by just saying that Nash and Paul are the best PG's in the league and hence AB and Lowry cannot be expected to learn these skills.

AB plays at hyperspeed all the time, and fails to change pace to increase the "suddeness" of his acceleration.

 

At the beginning of the season I have seen Brooks do similar things.

It might be a mental thing. He had the green light and was actually playing pretty smart. It could be coach doesn't want him "ballhoging" so cutting down on dribbling and focusing on passing more might hinder his mentality to create space. Letting loose usually does the trick instead of focusing too much on the initial play.

Also the defenses are now stacked against our playmaking guards as our offense is lacking downlow. If they shutdown our post game, which is easy b/c it's only 1 guy Scola.

 

edit*

Also the defenses are now stacked against our playmaking guards as our offense is lacking downlow. If they shutdown our post game, (which is easy b/c it's only 1 guy Scola) they only need to focus on clogging the middle to prevent penetration.

 

Can't speak to much on the Celtics offense as I don't see them much, but the Suns and Hornets entire offense is predicated on the PG play. Paul and Nash keep the ball and dribble every where til they either can get a shot off or someone left thier man.

I don't see Brooks or Lowry quite having the talent to do that, nor would I really want them to. It doesn't fit our offense at all. Both of these guys are going to have a higher percentage of making a good play on their first pass through the lane

 

what OP is talking about is PG mentailty or a bball IQ.

brooks and lowry have played that way their whole lives, while nash and paul have kept their dribble and probed the paint their whole lives.

it's a style of play. it's what separates steve francis and marbury from john stockton or deron williams.

you can practice a jumpshot or a spin move and perfect it, but it's very difficult to change your style of play.

imagine asking a prime steve francis to play like john stockton. i dont think it would work.

 

honestly, we need to trade brooks while his stock is high. or put him on the bench where he could thrive as a 6th man type of player, in no way shape or form should he and kevin martin should be playing together, they both demand and need the ball to be effective.

if anything, starting lowry makes more sense, then get the ball to martin to create a shot for himself or for someone else. battier should get less minutes, he was never that athletic, now he's as athletic as a tree. ariza should get more open looks if martin is scoring more, scola and whoever the other post player should be able to get more chances to get offensive rebounds because their man will go help defend martin or whoever it is that is slashing.

brooks, 6th man of the year 2011. sounds good right? or trade him with jeffries expiring contract for a legit starting PG.

 

we have so many problems on this team, i don't even know where to start

and this is all due to injuries.

imagine having a healthy Yao still dominating putting up 25-10 per.

Yao / Hayes / Andersen
Scola / Hill / Jeffries
Ariza / Battier
Martin / Budinger
Brooks / Lowry

looks like a playoff team, but with a Yao who will never be the same, mark my words, we're gonna be mediocre for a while unless we draft well and get a franchise player, because of now, we don't have the talent, nor the money to get anyone to build around. it's a shame really, don't get me wrong, i'm not a fair weather fan, but i don't watch the games like i did before the injury, that's for sure. and Kevin Martin is not going to be the savior.

 

This is not true, they both actually work quite well w/o the ball. I think Durvusa posted a stat that 40% of Brook's baskets are on assists from <i>other players</i>, while other elite PG's like Nash, this # was < 15 %. To me this means not only is Brooks a great catch and shoot guy, but he doesnt need to dominate the ball to score. Also with Martin, most of his shot attempts seem to come from going round picks and catching and shooting. And these passes come from the PF / C position just as much as the PG.

Now do I think Brooks could give the rock up a bit more often to Martin, sure. But its not like Martin is exactly setting the net on fire either. So I'll give them both benefit of the doubt. I think 2 good offensive players who are great w/o the ball can flourish in RA's system together. I'll give them some more time, at least til the end of the season before I demand we trade / bench Brooks etc.

 

if true, then it's something about today's game that makes that skill necessary. Why do you think point guards today need that skill? Is it the semi-zone defenses? The lack of hand-checking? Because it wasn't required to be a "great point guard" years ago


I feel like you're just describing a style of play that happens to be successful for some good players right now and saying that our players need to have a similar style to be successful. There are many ways to play the game.. sure, it'd be nice to add something like that to your game. But by no means is it the only way to become a "great" PG.. and I don't think it's the thing that separates good from great like you were hypothesizing

To me, it's close to someone saying "well, Reggie Miller and Rip Hamilton are great shooting guards. They both use screens really well and can come off picks shooting 50%. Therefore our players need to develop that skill--it's something that can be developed with practice, especially if you can already shoot"

It's just another style. I think Brooks and Lowry can be successful with or without it, and that alone isn't going to move them to the next level. I mean...I think Lowry could move to the next level faster if he refined his jumpshot a ton (not that I think that's an easy task for him, either)

 

The offense doesn't solely come from a PG that dominates the ball and has to create for his teammates.
This is Rick Adelman's system where the ~1st open shot found is taken.

Brooks already took a big step towards keeping his dribble alive from last season to this season: he gets into the lane and gets out again (even if it is all the way out) when there is no good shot. Last season he would have forced the shot.

With an extended period in the gym (offseason), I'm sure he will learn to the next step too.

 

This.

Brooks did indeed look good as a real pg in the first few games. In fact, he was getting praise from the garm to the effect that he "must have worked that out in the summer". By now, he has fully reverted back to the scoring pg instead of distributing pg mentality.