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Britain's Top General Bucks Blair- Calls For Troop Withdrawal

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Oct 13, 2006.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    The dam's about to break. The Bush Administration isn't going to be able to deny reality in Iraq much longer.


    Government stunned by Army chief's Iraq blast
    Last updated at 15:17pm on 13th October 2006


    A blistering assessment of British policy in Iraq from the country's top soldier left Tony Blair reeling today.

    General Sir Richard Dannatt said troops should come home within two years - flatly contradicting the Prime Minister's policy that the military will stay "as long as it takes".

    In unprecedented comments he warned that the Army could 'break' if British soldiers are kept too long in Iraq.

    "I want an Army in five years time and 10 years time. Don't let's break it on this one. Let's keep an eye on time," he said.

    Downing Street was aghast at the general's remarks, though in public it offered "full support".

    His comments come after an exclusive interview with the Daily Mail, where Sir Richard warned that the continuing presence of British troops "exacerbates the security problems" in Iraq and added that a "moral and spiritual vacuum" has opened up in British society, which is allowing Muslim extremists to undermine "our accepted way of life."

    The Chief of the General Staff believes that Christian values are under threat in Britain and that continuing to fight in Iraq will only make the situation worse.

    His views have sent shockwaves through Government.

    They are a total repudiation of the Prime Minister, who has repeatedly insisted that British presence in Iraq is morally right and has had no effect on our domestic security.

    Sir Richard, who took up his post earlier this year, warned that "our presence in Iraq exacerbates" the "difficulties we are facing around the world."

    He lambasts Tony Blair's desire to forge a "liberal democracy" in Iraq as a "naive" failure and he warns that "whatever consent we may have had in the first place" from the Iraqi people "has largely turned to intolerance."

    ........

    He says clearly we shoud "get ourselves out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems."

    "We are in a Muslim country and Muslims' views of foreigners in their country are quite clear."

    As a foreigner, you can be welcomed by being invited in a country, but we weren’t invited certainly by those in Iraq at the time.

    "The military campaign we fought in 2003 effectively kicked the door in. Whatever consent we may have had in the first place, may have turned to tolerance and has largely turned to intolerance."

    "That is a fact. I don’t say that the difficulties we are experiencing round the world are caused by our presence in Iraq but undoubtedly our presence in Iraq exacerbates them."

    In comments that set him at loggerheads with Mr Blair, Gen Dannatt warns that the good intentions of 2003 have long since evaporated - pitching British troops into a lethal battle that few at home can understand.

    "I think history will show that the planning for what happened after the initial successful war fighting phase was poor, probably based more on optimism than sound planning," he said.

    "The original intention was that we put in place a liberal democracy that was an exemplar for the region, was pro West and might have a beneficial effect on the balance within the Middle East."

    "That was the hope, whether that was a sensible or naïve hope history will judge. I don’t think we are going to do that. I think we should aim for a lower ambition."

    The Prime Minister has repeatedly insisted that British troops must stay until the Iraqi security forces are able to take charge - a forlorn hope as the country has slipped to the brink of civil war.

    Sir Richard warned that the consequences will be felt at home, where failure to support Christian values is allowing a predatory Islamist vision to take hold.

    He said: "When I see the Islamist threat in this country I hope it doesn’t make undue progress because there is a moral and spiritual vacuum in this country."

    "Our society has always been embedded in Christian values; once you have pulled the anchor up there is a danger that our society moves with the prevailing wind."

    "There is an element of the moral compass spinning. I think it is up to society to realise that is the situation we are in."

    "We can’t wish the Islamist challenge to our society away and I believe that the army both in Iraq and Afghanistan and probably wherever we go next, is fighting the foreign dimension of the challenge to our accepted way of life."

    "We need to face up to the Islamist threat, to those who act in the name of Islam and in a perverted way try to impose Islam by force on societies that do not wish it."

    "It is said that we live in a post Christian society. I think that is a great shame. The broader Judaic-Christian tradition has underpinned British society. It underpins the British army."

    General Dannatt says he has "more optimism" that "we can get it right in Afghanistan."

    ........

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I saw this earlier this morning on CNN. A HUGE story. Wow. Just wow. I agree, gif... watching the Administration spin this should be highly entertaining, were it not for the fact that they got us, and our British friends, into this mess.

    Waiting as well for Hayes to give us his own spin. Come on, Hayes! Don't disappoint us! ;)
    basso will probably blame Clinton.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  3. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    the BBS keyboard brigade hasn't even responded to the Baker Rules Out Iraq Victory thread yet
     
  4. losttexan

    losttexan Member

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    The next day he said he didn't mean immediately but over the next 2 to 3 years.

    You don't think some one got on the phone with him and gave him a talking to do you?
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I think a politico asked him if he'd like to spend the remainder of his career assigned to the Falklands, or worse.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Ask and ye shall receive! I hate to disappoint. :)

    Not sure why this is a big story. Let's see:

    British General comments on domestic security issues? He's not in a position to comment on that - not his expertise.

    British General comments on need to maintain Christian based society in Britain? That would seem to be a POV that most of you would normally castigate.

    British General comments that post-war planning was poor? Thanks, Captain....er, General, Obvious. I think we're all agreed on that point.

    British General comments that Iraqis are now intolerant of foreign forces in their country? Ok. Nothing groundbreaking there.

    Overall I don't see anything that either a new perspective nor especially insightful about the statement.
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's army chief said his troops should be withdrawn from Iraq soon as their presence was making security worse, in bluntly worded comments seized upon by opponents of the U.S.-led invasion three years ago.

    Chief of the General Staff Richard Dannatt told the Daily Mail newspaper that post-war planning for the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq was "poor" and the presence of troops there was hurting British security globally.

    The remarks, extraordinary from such a senior serving officer, could have political fallout on both sides of the Atlantic. The war has damaged the standing of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and is a major issue for U.S. President George W. Bush's allies in congressional elections next month.


    Although in later interviews Dannatt denied any split with Blair, he may have added to the storm by warning that overstretching the British army in Iraq could "break it".

    Britain should "get ourselves out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems," he told the Mail.

    "I don't say that the difficulties we are experiencing round the world are caused by our presence in Iraq, but undoubtedly our presence in Iraq exacerbates them," he said.


    "I think history will show that the planning for what happened after the initial successful war fighting phase was poor, probably based more on optimism than sound planning."


    http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...EO743062_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ.xml&src=rss&rpc=22


    Hayes, don't you ever get dizzy from the spin?? :eek: ;)



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  8. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Well, that's typical. Ask for it and then criticize. :eek: You just can't please some people. ;) The Reuters article just repeats the same quotes. And accusing me of 'spin' doesn't address my points, although it is an easy way to avoid debate. :p
     
  9. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    why did you skip these two statements?

    General Sir Richard Dannatt said troops should come home within two years - flatly contradicting the Prime Minister's policy that the military will stay "as long as it takes".

    In unprecedented comments he warned that the Army could 'break' if British soldiers are kept too long in Iraq.
     
  10. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    I don't skip anything. I said: "Overall I don't see anything that either a new perspective nor especially insightful about the statement." That should cover everything I didn't specifically address.

    OK. And?

    OK. And?
     

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