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Breaking the traditional civil/military relationship

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Amiga, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Personal and political control of the military. Nothing wrong here.

    South Dakota governor Kristi Noem sending National Guard to Mexico border on mission funded by GOP megadonor - The Washington Post

    South Dakota Gov. Kristi L. Noem (R) will deploy up to 50 National Guard troops to the southern U.S. border, her office said Tuesday, with a highly unusual caveat — the mission will be funded by a “private donation” from an out-of-state GOP megadonor billionaire.


    South Dakota State News Home (sd.gov)

    The initial deployment to the border will last for between 30 and 60 days. South Dakota Adjutant General Jeff Marlette and the South Dakota Department of the Military are working with their counterparts in Texas to finalize the details of this mission. The deployment will be paid for by a private donation.

     
  2. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Member

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    Don’t mix business with pleasure
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Don’t ask don’t tell?
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I have a lot questions about this.
    First, my understanding is the Constitution specifically has control of borders and immigration under the Federal government so not sure what legal authority the SD national guard has doing this even if TX invites them.

    Second, would this essentially be making the SD guard either rent-a-cops or mercenaries?
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    Abbott has declared a disaster and he called for governors of other states to assists (Abbott-Ducey_Compact_Letter_to_Governors.pdf (texas.gov))

    He basically invoked the Emergency Management Assistance Compact - Wikipedia and that allow States to send National Guards to TX.

    Yes, that's the troubling part about "rent-a-cops". To avoid confusion with an accepted practice - Private entities can be charged for security services (by local police) that is needed due to their activities and we have been doing that without much issues. But this is the first time I heard of a person donating to a political cause for a military mission. They probably found some loophole around laws that allow this. As we have seen in the last few years, our government works on laws as much as traditional and norms. There is an established norm that said hell no to this. But that is now broken because the SD governor doesn't give a rat about established traditions and norms for political wins. Now, watch other States and political donors thinking out loud... hummm..
     
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  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I know there is a compact between the states but Abbott is using this for something that isn't a state responsibility but a Federal responsibility.

    If he was going to invoke this compact it should've been to send snow plows and sand trucks down during the winter crisis in February. Then resources from SD would've really been able to make a difference.
     
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  7. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    It’s in his letter on what legally he think the state can do. Note - I’m sure Congress intention was for a joint or agreed upon split effort of state and fed when needed as to deal with illegal entries, not for this infighting and political posturing.

    Edit - To me that’s not controversial. Congress provided that power to the state and there probably is some coordination between state and fed gov. The “rent-a-military” is the issue.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I read it and I'm not familiar with the terms of what he is claiming, the Immigration Reform Act of 1996 allows the state compact to enforce illegal immigration. I will have to look into that more when I have the time but it sounds questionable.

    Either way this "crisis" is far more politically manufactured when there have been real crisis such as the winter crisis, record heat and wild fires that Abbott, Ducey and Noem should be far more concerned about.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I'm okay with SD being able to send National Guard here on invitation. But it shouldn't be funded by private citizens. Now if it was funded from the General Fund, and a billionaire just donated to the state's General Fund on a wink and a nod, I don't think we can stop it. But dedicated funding presumably with performance requirements (like, 'I get my money back if you don't send the guard like I asked', or 'send me the bill at the end of each month with actual expenses') seems unethical.
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    "WH Won't Stop Governors From Sending Guard Units to Border":

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...om_sending_guard_units_to_border__146016.html

    excerpt:

    Republican governors can deploy their National Guard as they see fit, and if that includes sending them across state lines to the southern U.S. border, the White House won’t stop them.

    “What to do with her National Guard is up to the governor and how to fund them is her prerogative as well,” a senior White House official told RealClearPolitics when asked Wednesday about South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem’s plan to send 50 guardsmen to the border on a mission funded by a private GOP donor. The administration will focus, the official added, “not on political gestures but rather on putting in the work and delivering the solutions.”
    more at the link

    gotta say it's a bit of a relief to know the WH is putting in the work and working on solutions
     
  11. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    They absolutely have that right and I can see very valid cases for it.

    The problem I have here is the private funding. The governor has stated it is from a private donation. How exactly they do it doesn't matter (I'm sure they can find a legal way to do it), but that it is being done. We shouldn't have individual funding their desired US military operation through donation, the so called 'rent-a-military'.
     
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The right to send the guard following the compact yes but not the right to enforce immigration law. Since I've got some time I took a look at the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (IIRIRA) and I don't think it grants state the unilateral ability to enforce immigration law.

    The section in question appears to be 287(g) which allows the US Attorney General to deputize state officials to help enforce immigration law. That section requires that state and local officials be trained to enforce those laws. It also appears that there have been a pattern of abuse by local officials claiming to have acted under that section.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_Section_287(g)

    Anyway given it's only 50 SD guard going. This appears to be not much more than a show force that likely won't do much. My guess is that the Biden Admin doesn't feel it's worth addressing.
     
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

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    You think that CBP and NG have to coordinate when they are in the same area. The NG might require some approval from the federal government to perform the duty they typically perform. I wouldn't be surprised at all that's happening beyond the politic. As @Os Trigonum said with good sarcasm, it's possible the Biden Admin is working with these states on coordinate effort, working on real solutions while all 3 State governors are politicking as you can see from all of their statements.

    If I'm Biden, I wouldn't bother with this either. It's a hot-button issue for the right and a few troops here isn't changing anything much and worth diverting attention away from their goals.
     
  14. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    What exactly is the ND national guard supposed to do?

    Isn't it illegal for them to do any police action?
     
  15. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    That's the loophole.

    If the National Guard is called up by the Feds, they cant be police. If they are working for the governor/state, no issues.
     
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  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I see.

    It's just for show anyway.

    Until somebody gets trigger happy.
     

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