BOSTON - Four white men passed over for firefighting jobs in favor of minority candidates who scored lower on civil service tests must be hired as soon as possible, a federal judge has ruled. The men had sued the Boston Fire Department for discrimination. They must also be awarded back pay and seniority they would have earned since October 2000, the date they were denied employment, U.S. District Court Judge Richard Stearns ordered Monday. A fifth plaintiff who was hired last October also will get a pay raise under the ruling. "I think hopefully we're just going back to normal, the way it was meant to be, so that now they are just hiring the best person, regardless of race or color," said Harold Lichten, the attorney for all five men. The city is exploring its options, officials said. "The city has just received this decision," said Seth Gitell, a spokesman for Mayor Thomas M. Menino. "The city's lawyers are reviewing it and considering its implications for future hiring." The judge's decision applies only to the men who sued and was not intended to establish a precedent for other white applicants who were passed over in October 2000. Joseph Quinn already has been hired; the other plaintiffs were Sean O'Brien; Robert Dillon; Joseph Sullivan, and C. Roger Kendrick Jr. An NAACP lawyer questioned the decision. "If a return to normal means a return to the way the Boston Fire Department conducted its hiring prior to the mid-1970s, it will be a disaster for any applicants of color in this city," Toni Wolfman said. The judge at first rejected the civil rights suit filed in April 2001, the first to challenge the department's affirmative action hiring policy since 1989, when it was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. But the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals reversed Stearns, ruling in March that the city has achieved its goal of racial parity among entry-level firefighters, and no longer needed to abide by a nearly 30-year-old court order that departments across the state have used as a model to correct racial imbalance. I just thought it was kind of funny that they are ordering them to hire white people. But feel free to discuss as you wish....
I can see granting someone seniority... but backpay is ridiculous, since... How about this: the city picks up the backpay tab between October 2000 and April 2001. The judge picks up the rest.
Denying somebody a job who scored higher on the civil service test than the person hired is reprehensible. This is exactly the definition of discrimination.
Back to normal!!! Woohooo, I can't wait! Can you righties start posting links with your articles even if it's Ann Coulter or FoxNews. Thanks.
Hire the best candidate for the job...pretty simple really. A good decision by the courts. "All men are created equal".... DD
All men are absolutely created equal. Amen to that. But not all men are given the same opportunities. Thanks to centuries of slavery, overt racism and inequality, African-Americans are battling a 400-year headstart in the race of wealth accumulation, employment advancement, social status and education (all social constructs, not individual merits). Shoot, blacks couldn't even vote or eat at the same lunch counter until 39 years ago. Whites (generally) start on a higher socio-economic rung than minorities, because they've had generations of ancestors who have slowly built wealth, employment advancement, social status and education. If, thanks to generations of slow advancement, you're born on "rung 5," you have a better shot at reaching rung 7 than the guy who was born down on rung 3.
This is really a ridiculous argument. What about poor asians who arrive here from Vietnam? They have less "wealth accumulation" than blacks do currently. They barely speak english, whereas that has been the blacks' language since birth. They also have a history of being discriminated against in this country. Why don't asians get affirmative action? Why do hispanics, who come to this country under similar terms as poor asians, get it? Why does somebody who is 1/2 black, 1/2 white receive it? Why does somebody who is 1/2 hispanic get it? I can tell you. Because in our screwed up society, racial preferences are provided in an ARBITRARY manner to "favored" minorities. AA started FORTY years ago as a way to reverse the effects of past discrimination against blacks. FORTY years later, and after spreading to a few other "select" minority groups, the justification is now "to achieve diversity". Please. Lawmakers are too chicken to do away with it, due to losing key voting groups' support. AA does more harm to minorities than it does good. Any minority who has a high position makes people wonder if they got there due to true merit or simply due to their skin color. It also serves to reinforce people sticking to "their own", further perpetuating divisiveness. The case in question in Boston is racial discrimination, plain and simple. According to the article, the were more qualified whites were denied a job in favor of less qualified blacks. That is discrimination. Two wrongs do NOT make a right.
As a Spanish-speaker providing an unbiased opinion, I completely agree with bigtexxx. Affirmative action discredits minorities who actually earn their way in life and succeed without the need for handouts. It has been in place for a long time without considerable progress to show for it. Let's quit attempting to achieve some ridiculous and arbitrary Aldous Huxley standard for societal social equity and begin treating all people equally under the *law*. It sickens me that my tax dollars help perpetuate racism by supporting affirmative action programs. Let me earn my own way, independent of government influences and society's idea of social equity. Let my performance dictate my direction in life, don't let a government handout do so. Achievements and accomplishments mean more to people when they earn it, not when they are gifted it.
almost 4 centuries of racism keeping the white man down in Boston coming to an end Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, they're free at last!
As always, Timing does his best to keep the board *content-free*. That's what happens when you just cannot respond to a great post. Nice job in contributing two sentences instead of your typical one, though.
Actually, weren't white Irish discriminated against in the North East big time when they showed up in this country? Seems like they have gotten over it. All I know is when my house might be burning down and I might have to rely on somebody to save my family, I want the most trained, qualified, professional, firefighter possible to come in there and do their job. I might have to depend on these people for my life and the lives of my friends and family. I can not BELIEVE people would argue that we should hire LESS qualified people because they belong to a minority when people's lives depend on their performance. That is the most ri-god-darn-diculous argument you can make. If the most qualified person is a white, black, hispanic, asian, or freaking Eskimo, I don't freakin' care, and neither does 99.999% of the population....as long as they are the SMARTEST, BEST, MOST QUALIFIED, HIGHEST trained person that is available for their emergency situation..
Do you realize how insulting it is to compare the history of the discrimination of the Irish to the history of the discrimination of Blacks in this country. Its a ridiculous point and when debating in these threads, I wish some of you would realize that and not try to compare the two. I didn't know the Irish came here against their free will and were slaves for over 200 years. We had a president of Irish decent in this country in 1961. Do you think a black man could have been president in 1961? Its a ridiculous and utterly offensive point. Continue on with your debate.
Your head is content free. You and gringo latino over here who thinks that because he speaks Spanish he knows anything about being Spanish are like the Washington Generals of this BBS. You post the stupidest things to bait posters over and over again month after month only to get slapped down, discredited, and run off for the ignorant posters that you are but the next day rolls around and you show up again to play your role and take the beating just like clockwork. *snore*
Nope, in fact that is my exact opinion of you, sir. Both T_J's and my posts have plenty of content. Your insults and attempts at humor reinforce how what you just wrote about me in fact applies to yourself. OWNED.
I have neither the inclination nor the time to waste bothering with bigots like you who have a complete unwillingness and possibly even an inability to understand the complexities of racism in our society. You don't know the data, you don't know the effects... you basically don't know anything with regard to the subject. If you want to play Morton Downey Jr. and run your mouth with the angry white man routine then go ahead but don't expect to be taken seriously by anyone who's lived with the racism that you can't fathom existing in this country unless it's directed at poor white people fighting the terrible oppression of affirmative action. You don't own anything but a stupid ass ignorant opinion that's not worth anyone's time. Go ahead and play your games, I frankly don't care.
This post is very offensive and inappropriate. This is above and beyond the typical back and forth -- this is just vulgar. You have crossed the line with this post.
