Interestin read... at least i found it interesting Black immigrants collect most degrees But affirmative action is losing direction Published March 18, 2007 WASHINGTON -- Do African immigrants make the smartest Americans? The question may sound outlandish, but if you were judging by statistics alone, you could find plenty of evidence to back it up. In a side-by-side comparison of 2000 census data by sociologists including John R. Logan at the Mumford Center, State University of New York at Albany, black immigrants from Africa averaged the highest educational attainment of any population group in the country, including whites and Asians. For example, 43.8 percent of African immigrants had achieved a college degree, compared with 42.5 of Asian-Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole. That defies the usual stereotypes of Asian-Americans as the only "model minority." Yet the traditional American narrative has rendered the high academic achievements of black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean invisible, as if that were a taboo topic. Instead, we should take a closer look. That was my reaction in 2004 after black Harvard law professor Lani Guinier and Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of Harvard's African-American studies department, stirred up a black Harvard alumni reunion with questions about precisely where the university's new black students were coming from. About 8 percent, or about 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, Gates and Guinier said, but somewhere between one-half and two-thirds of the black students were "West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples." If we take a closer look, I said at the time, I bet we'd find that Harvard's not alone. With all of the ink and airwaves that have been devoted to immigration these days, black immigrants remain remarkably invisible. Yet, their success has long followed the patterns of other high-achieving immigrants. Now comes a new study that finds a consistent pattern of Ivy League and other elite colleges and universities boosting their black student populations by enrolling large numbers of immigrants from Africa, the West Indies and Latin America. Immigrants, who make up 13percent of the nation's college-age black population, account for more than a fourth of black students at Ivy League and other selective universities, according to the study of 28 colleges and universities. The authors of the study, published recently in the American Journal of Education, included Douglas S. Massey of Princeton University and Camille Z. Charles at the University of Pennsylvania. The proportion of immigrants was higher at private institutions, 28.8 percent, than at the public colleges, where they comprised 23.1 percent of enrollment. Are elite schools padding their racial diversity numbers with black immigrants who do not have a history of American slavery in their families? This development immediately calls into question whether affirmative action admission policies are fulfilling their original intent. But, as Walter Benn Michaels, a professor of English at the University of Illinois at Chicago, writes in his book "The Trouble With Diversity," the original intent of affirmative action morphed in the 1970s from reparations for slavery into the promotion of a broader virtue: "diversity." Since then, it no longer seems to matter how many of our colleges' black students have slavery in their families. It only matters that they're black. That said, I don't begrudge black immigrants or any other high-achieving immigrants for their impressive achievements. I applaud them. I encourage more native-born American children, particularly my own child, to take similar advantage of this country's hard-won opportunities. But I also think we need to revisit the question of diversity. Unlike our system of feel-good game-playing, we need to focus on the deeper question of how opportunities can be opened to everyone who was left behind by the civil rights revolution. We tend to look too often at every aspect of diversity except economic class. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...n?coll=chi-navrailnews-nav&ctrack=1&cset=true
Kind of reminds me of the time when Milton Bradley accused Dodger management of being racist because he was the only real black guy on the team. I guess really dark-complexioned players from Central America don't count.
The point is that affirmative action is supposed to help correct the ramifications of slavery and segregation on black americans.
They don't. Are you really suggesting that Dominicans are the same as African Americans? Dark skinned players from the Caribbean area or some parts of South America, primarily the D.R, Puerto Rico, and/or Cuba (which I think you mean, not Central America- I doubt there are too many black Salvadoran or Guatemalan major leaguers ) don't identify themselves as african americans at all. It's a very different cultural background. They don't even share the same language.
i do love some of the american black "intellectuals" in america who try to paint this as a semi-negative. achievement from a minority just isn't good enough. let's see who had a harder and more discriminated life...an african immigrant who has seen more misery than americans can fathom or an american black from a broken home that is 6 generations removed from american slavery? they can't just be black...they have to be from american slavery to benefit from affirmative action. what a dysfunctional world... also, i do think it is awesome to see african immigrants doing so well. i will always cherish the classes i had in african studies at UT. but it is african-AMERICAN studies that i have a big for. after taking 1 african-american studies class you come away very unimpressed with the material.
wow, it's surprising that you're so out of touch because there is plenty of empirical evidence which suggests otherwise. Hey what year is this by the way? We had this debate a few years ago, and after a lot of strong evidence given by the military that affirmative action was a national security matter, that nobody ever refuted, it was upheld by the supreme court.
You're purposely misreading his post. He's not saying that they're black. He's saying that the owner has other non-whites on the team.
I'd love to see that evidence. There is a mountain of income and crime data that flies directly in the face of your hypothesis.
No, I'm not purposely misreading it. You are. The paraphrase, is that milton bradley is the only "real black guy", if I take that to mean African-American as most logical people would, (as opposed to Afro-carribean), then it's true. What's wrong with the statement/paraphrase by Bradley? It's true.
wow, again, what year is this? I suggest you read the briefing (particularly the amicus briefing) in Grutter v. Bollinger from several years ago. It will contain all the citations you require. It's hard for me to fathom how you missed it because this was explained to you in detail four years ago.
I would bet that most african immigrants who come here to go to school aren't that poor. its a point that has been made in this forum in previous affirmative action threads. but regardless of the economic status of the immigrants, I think you're missing the point. Its funny because most people who are against affirmative action usually make the same argument, that it doesn't help who it is intended to. I guess that the argument came from a black intellectual has you all riled up. what the heck is that supposed to mean
I don't see the problem with this, but it is a really interesting point. If there is one continent where we are still attracting the "best and brightest" immigrants from, it's Africa. I knew a French teacher/soccer coach from my high school (after I graduated) who was a tribal prince in Nigeria. When he had the opportunity to go to England for undergrad and then the United States for graduate school, he jumped on it. He'd rather live a decidedly middle class life in the US than lower-level royalty in Nigeria.
On it's face there is absolutely nothing wrong with Bradley making the factually correct observation that he's the only "real black guy" on the team. And it's reasonable that most people could infer that he didn't mean Afro-Carribean. I agree with that. But by the same token we have to look at the context of his statement. It wasn't an innocuous, nonchalant statement of fact. It was attached to an assertion of racism, which changes the game somewhat wouldn't you agree?
No I am not. I just thought that Bradley's rationalization that Doger management was racist because he was the only black American to be misplaced - that he did not consider foreign "blacks" to be "black" by his standards. To me, it sort of relates to this article. The main point I garnered from this article was that affirmative action was not working as intended because "foreign" blacks were benefitting moreso than "American" blacks. One point that concerned me the most was that they were counting children of "African" blacks who were born here (ie. Americans) did not really count: 'About 8 percent, or about 530, of Harvard's undergraduates were black, Gates and Guinier said, but somewhere between one-half and two-thirds of the black students were "West Indian and African immigrants or their children, or to a lesser extent, children of biracial couples."' Just when would an African black's American-born descendants be considered "American"? Never? Because they can't prove that their ancestors were slaves? To me - affirmative action (or diversity) has always been about skin color. I did not see any "where are your great grandparents from?" type of questions in my college applications. If its going to be about skin color - then let it be about skin color. I think we would be walking a very hazy line if we started tracing family trees, etc.
well even if you are well off in africa it doesn't necessarily shelter you from the sectarian violence and mob violence that occurs. it will help you survive for sure but the massive amount of people who die in africa from violence, aids, and other diseases is just unreal. one of my friend from high school was from liberia and he was forced to become a soldier at age 12. he had to do some horrible things to survive and prove loyalty. second point...no I am just riled up because the intellectual from the african american studies field is unhappy that the wrong kind of blacks are benefiting from affirmative action. maybe we should just change affirmative action so it only helps americans decended from slaves who don't achieve as much as these african immigrants. finally, it means I think very little of african american studies. it is less intellectual and plays more to the emotional. it's driving me crazy because I can only find 2 books from that class...negrophobia and the agony of education. by comparison here are some books from my african classes...development planning and decolonizing in nigeria, violence in nigeria, understanding contemporary africa. african studies would be like AA studies if it looked at african life solely as a function of how bad the white man screwed africa (and whites did ruin africa to a point). instead african studies looks at that but then also looks at the problems present within many african societies...
(continued...i am on my treo) ...unrelated to whites and the problems they caused. africa has a lot of the problems they do today due to tribalism and sectarianism. so yes my white american ancestors destroyed black american society to a point, but we didn't do all the damage. that is the kind of introspective stuff that tends to get brushed away. the problems within american black culture that hinder success were hardly acknowledged. I am tired of typing on this thing...i hope I got my point across semi-decent.
