i was going to post this in the 2.2 million in jail thread since thats where the conversation was going in that thread, but i decided to make a new thread for this. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060530/ap_on_go_ot/student_views Black, Hispanic pupils see school as tough By BEN FELLER, AP Education Writer Tue May 30, 4:36 PM ET WASHINGTON - Black and Hispanic students see school as a more rowdy, disrespectful and dangerous place than their white classmates do, a poll says. The findings suggest that many minority kids are struggling in the equivalent of a hostile work environment, according to Public Agenda, a nonpartisan opinion research group that tracks education trends. Minority children in public middle and high schools are more likely than white children to describe profanity, truancy, fighting, weapons and drug abuse as "very serious" problems. The black and Hispanic children — under pressure to close their test-score gaps with whites — also see more pervasive academic woes, such as lower standards, higher dropout rates and kids who advance even if they don't learn. "There is so much discussion about the achievement gap, and we talk about teachers and curriculum and testing and money," said Jean Johnson, Public Agenda's executive vice president and an author of the report. "We need to add something to that list — school climate. For these kids, it has become such a distracting atmosphere," Johnson said. Thirty percent of black students — three in every 10 — said teachers spend more time trying to keep order in class than teaching; 14 percent of white students said the same. More than half of black students said kids who lack respect for teachers and use bad language is a very serious problem, compared to less than one-third of white students. Hispanic students also reported worse social and academic conditions in school than white children, although the gaps were not as large as they were between blacks and whites. On the plus side, the poll found positive results that cut across race and ethnicity. Majorities of children said they are learning a lot in reading, writing and math classes. Most students said at least one teacher who has gotten them interested in a subject they usually hate. The students agreed on matters of work ethic, too. About eight in 10 said it is good for school districts to require higher standards, even if that means kids must go to summer school. Almost 60 percent of black students acknowledged they could try a little harder, compared to 53 percent of Hispanics and 46 percent of whites. In perspective, most students said schools were meeting expectations on most measures. Yet the minority children were more likely to see students struggling to get by in class, to see unfair enforcement of discipline rules, to say schools aren't getting enough money. "Students of color are correct in their understanding that their schools get less in the way of resources, and offer less in the way of high standards," said Ross Wiener, policy director of The Education Trust, an advocacy group for poor and minority children. "It is a shame that a country dedicated to equal opportunity tolerates these inequities." Among students in public schools, 59 percent are white, 19 percent are Hispanic and 17 percent are black, according to Education Department numbers from the 2003-04 school year. In the poll, students in wealthier schools reported fewer serious problems than students in poor schools, but results were not available for racial groups of different income levels. Minority parents were more likely to see problems in schools, just as their kids did. Black and Hispanic parents were more than twice as likely as white parents to call weapons and fighting a very serious problem. They reported bigger concerns about crowded classes and low standards. Most teachers, meanwhile, said academic expectations for students were high regardless of the racial makeup of the school. Teachers in mostly minority schools reported less parental involvement, lower support from their superintendent and poorer grammar among their students. The findings are based on phone interviews with a random sample of 1,379 parents of children now in public school, 1,342 public school students in grades six through 12, and 721 public school teachers. The interviews were conducted between Oct. 30, 2005 and March 7. The margin of error for the sample was plus or minus 4 percentage points for the parents and teachers and 3 percentage points for the students. The poll was paid for by the GE Foundation, the Nellie Mae Education Foundation and the Wallace Foundation.
i think our school funding system is largely responsible. there are good families and good kids in underperforming schools...who want desparately to go to schools that will truly help them. where they don't have to worry about this crap. parent involvement is huge, in my opinion, as well. i've seen what it's meant for schools where i live and it's just ridiculous. when teachers feel they have the support of parents in teaching their kids and education isn't just pawned off on the schools, alone, kids thrive.
In all seriousness though, what do underprivileged Hispanic and Black kids expect from the education they receive in school? With the relentless promotions by the society, the culture, the media, and the entertainment-sports-commercialism complex, what do these kids envision themselves in the future? Boring middle-class professionals under little spotlight or super-duper millionaire entertainer/athletes? I find it rather bewildering every time I see on TV minority kids gather around NBA players, who tell them "Staying in School Is Your Best Move" or "Reading Is Fun--damental." Right messages, but wrong messengers.
And it would ruin the "white people are racist" theory. I wish they would stratify these studies by income level instead. They would probably find a stronger income correlation than race. Middle-class black kids do just fine. You know what makes a school bad? Bad students. I have a lot of friends who teach at a local public high school. They pretty much all agree that it's the quality of the students who largely make or break a school. Sadly - it's the kids from poorer backgrounds who are generally more unruly. I think culture and mindset have more to do with it than funding or skin color.
That's a good point. I've seen athletes (and Dick Vitale) tell kids that they can make their (hoop) dreams come true if they work hard enough. Their dreams of a college education, steady job, and home ownership? - YES Their dreams of the NBA and a Nike contract? - only for the gifted .0001 percent.
...bingo. You get out of any school system what you put into it. There are plenty of dropouts from the Alief school system that would echo the sentiments in this article. I went to Alief, graduated from UT in 3 years and will be going to law school. Same school system, different attitude about education. My parents taught me the importance of an education. I agree with you here, wnes.
White Liberals don't count asian kids because it would crush their argument that minorities are being held back by "Da White Man".
I grew up in a Mexican family with a single mother who made minimum wage. Our schools were integrated when I was in 7th grade. I think it is wrong to forget and underemphasize the power, influence, discipline, determination, diligence, good character, hard work, intelligence, motivation, skills, problem solving abilities and dedication of good teachers and good parents in 'poor' schools. We need a return of power to good teachers and good parents. When our school integrated I made many new friends. They were polite and disciplined (less their parents and teachers whip their bottoms- I ad it was the same for me as far as a whipping). I don't think any one race or group had any more struggle with class as another as long as we had the support of good teachers and good parents. If there is a problem today it has not been because of money, just look at the amounts spent to 'solve' the problems. I am all for equitible funding, but just because every student has a computer and every campus has a new gym does not educate a student. Back when schools in our area integrated it opened the door for minority teachers to receive equal training and minority students equal textbooks. Good textbooks, good teachers with the power to educate will make all the difference. IMHO we need to understand the correlation of empowering good teachers and good parents. Good teachers and good parents know very well the importance of personal discipline, personal responsibility, accountability, good character, good manners, respect for others and diligent habits. (the very things that make success are less emphasized- today ) If the teachers are not as good as they were 50 yrs. ago and the parents aren't either then we are putting our money and effort in the wrong places. Give the power of curriculum, discipline, and teaching back to the teachers and parents. Provide funding that makes text books, and teacher training absolutely equitible for all and above all get parents back on track and involved in the education process. We failed the last generation by thinking money was the problem and now those students are parents who dropped out or were disenfranchised and they are now unable to provide a disciplined and productive home environment for their children. We are paying the price and expecting schools to fix the problem they created. You can overcrowd a one room school house today without any technology and provide good textbooks with a good teacher and if that teacher gets proper support from home that teacher will educate and train those students to be successful in life. Technology, equipment, and dollar bills does not raise up children to be productive and successful adults reaching full potential. Good people do that. So either we have forgot how to produce good teachers and parents aren't disciplined and trained themselves or we are ignoring them and greatly hindering them from doing their jobs. I support having minimum requirements for teachers, paying them the best salaries they deserve based upon merit and placing our emphasis on the health and discipline of the home. Good teachers and parents can get the job done given the chance. If you want to find the funding for poor schools, abolish the Dept. of Education immediately and give that money to the nations poorest districts and especially give some money to the better teachers, esp. minority teachers. We had a decent educational system prior to the Dept. of Education we just needed to make it equitable for all people. Let's give the power to the teachers and the parents. I know many frustrated teachers who have quit or given up because of the bull they have had to put up with over the last 30 years. One teacher told me he has watched his school district lose all discipline and character over the last 20 yrs.- He has been told not to discipline students less they face a lawsuit and he was told most of his class needs ritalin. Sounds like we need to get more funding for ritalin than anything else.
They don't count Asians in a lot of studies. Home loan approval, incarceration rates, traffic stop rates, average income, etc., etc. By their "white man is racist" theory, the numbers would prove that whites like Asians better than themselves.
they don't count asians because its a usually a totally different situation, like they probably don't count nigerians.
Why in the world would you assume they don't count Nigerians in studies? ...and how is it a different situation?
because I know they don't. and even if they did the point I'm making is nigerian immigrants are just as successful as asian immigrants for a lot of the same reasons. asian immigrants comparing their experience to black americans is beyond ridiculous. its different because immigrants who come over here usually already have a certain mindset that carried them halfway across the freakin globe. they are successful because they probably came over here to get an education, a specific job, a plan for a business or whatever, comparing them to the general population of americans is stupid.
or maybe they did count asian kids, how many of asian kids do you think went to these black and hispanic high schools? its a silly comparison that gets made everytime a subject of this nature is brought up.
Do you understand that you're basically saying that American minorities have no drive to succeed? Is that really want you believe? I'm not saying that about minorities. I'm saying that there's no conspiracy among white Americans to keep minorities down. If there were, it would include Asians and Nigerians as well. There are plenty of Asians that go to such schools and succeed.
don't put words in my mouth. the immigrant experience is skewed to highly motivated individuals. I'm not making excuses for the kids in the article. I'm talking about comparing the immigrant asian experience to the experience of all americans.
I guess it can be silly depending on the slant of the study. A lot of these studies seem to assume that "black" or "Hispanic" = minority and that the big, bad, white man is keeping minorites down somehow. Or that "black" = poor. While it is important to factor in race, it is also important to acknowledge that some minority groups do ,in fact, outperform whites in many areas - and that income level probably provides a greater correlation than skin color.
