Finally, one of the premiers from the past kicking ass and taking some names - O'Neal to be in fact. That b*stard needs to play his game, earn his money ($126 million) and shut the f**k up!
That's a great read, pasox. Thanks! Gotta love this quote: By STEVE WILSTEIN, AP Sports Columnist September 4, 2003 "Neal perfected his pout as a rookie -- unhappy with his bench time, the gray, drizzly weather in Portland and the local fondness for fish. He was grateful to go to Indiana and, for 126 million reasons, he should be happy to stay and not start pouting again. The Pacers need his heart as much as his tall, strong body and soft touch. He can help make them a contender this year. Or, if he comes back sulking, he can break them. Carlisle wisely reached out to O'Neal and gave him respect to begin the healing. He kept details of their ``nice conversation'' on Saturday private, but said he could appreciate Thomas' closeness to O'Neal, comparing it to his own in Detroit with Jerry Stackhouse. ``I told Jermaine that I understand what Isiah Thomas means to him, not only as a coach but as a mentor, as a friend and as a father figure,'' Carlisle said. ``I will in no way, shape or form try to replace that. Isiah Thomas will continue to be an important part of Jermaine's life and his basketball life and development.'' "Neal perfected his pout... " Ha! That's good. It's hard not to read this article and wonder if there are any comparisons to Eddie Griffin in O'Neal's long development, I know it's been brought up before... we should only hope, right? It's also hard not to read it and think Carlisle could have made a good coach for the Rocks. Bird may end up moving Jermaine if he doesn't "get over it" and play for Carlisle, but Carlisle is saying the right things so far.
Right on. Thats why I love Larry Bird. Hated him forever because of '86, but as soon as he retired, I started to realize how great he really was. Don't mess with Larry Legend. BTW, here is a great article I read on ESPN this morning about Bird and other superstars of the past (transition from playing to managing). Article is not very flattering of Clyde: The secret to their lack of success By Frank Hughes Special to ESPN.com Admittedly, we are drawing the following analogy across the thresholds of real-life fact and bad television fiction, but stick with us to the end and you'll see what we mean. Do you ever think that NBA commissioner David Stern must feel like Conrad Bain? Now, for everyone who is in their 30s, of course you know that Conrad Bain is Mr. Drummond on the television show "Diff'rent Strokes." (I've always wondered from a grammatical standpoint how and why the "e" in the word "different" became an apostrophe, as if different wasn't diff'rent enough.) And while we assume Conrad Bain did not REALLY have much of a fatherly affect on Kimberly, Willis and Arnold, our fantasy analogy would have us hope that he played some sort of role in shaping their real lives. And oh what lives they turned out to be. While Isiah Thomas, left, has failed, Larry Bird has flourished. In real life, Kimberly (Dana Plato) was in and out of trouble, robbed a dry cleaning store and eventually overdosed on drugs in a ramshackle house. Willis (Todd Bridges) has had multiple drug-related run-ins with the law and been in and out of jail more than another television contemporary, Otis on "The Andy Griffith Show." And Arnold (Gary Coleman) has become a parody of himself, angry that he never can get past the stigma of shortness and "What you talkin' bout, Willis?" His most recent failed venture was his bid to become governor of California, which ended with his endorsement of yet another Arnold, though one with a bit more vertical. Here, then, is why David Stern must feel like Conrad Bain: Stern, in a sense, is a fatherly figure to most of his players, and takes a special interest in the ones who have served to promote his league over the years to its current level of popularity and fiscal well-being. And, yet, when you begin to look at the post-playing-days accomplishments of those who should be carrying the game through the next 20 years, you think ... well, you think "Diff'rent Strokes." With the Indiana Pacers' firing of Isiah Thomas this past week, it only served to verify a stinging reality: That the glory players of the recent past are the gory stories of the present. While Thomas' tenure in Indiana will be regarded as a failure, perhaps his most lasting legacy is that he bought a league (the CBA), around whose neck he promptly placed a noose and cinched it tight, only to move on to his next disastrous endeavor. Don't blame Zeke entirely, though. His kissing buddy Magic Johnson failed miserably in his attempt as the head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, an experiment that lasted all of 16 games and a 5-11 record. Since then, Magic has been trying to procure a team of his own to run, the success of which is marked by the number of times you see him cheering next to Dyan Cannon at Staples Center. How about the greatest player of all time, Michael Jordan? His bid at running the Washington Wizards was such an abysmal failure that he was summarily dismissed by owner Abe Pollin in a humiliating front-office coup-d'etat that left Jordan scrambling to lick wounds in a manner with which he has not been accustomed. Worse, he was lampooned by unappreciative teammates who felt the weight of the throne was overbearing and unnecessary. And now we see Jordan running around the country unsuccessfully trying to use his name to conjure up another team in lopsided deals, one of which (Milwaukee) already fell apart. Clyde Drexler's stint at the University of Houston was so moribund that there are stories floating around the league that he was unprepared, lazy and disinterested, showing up at some games just before they started. He has a job as a consultant in Denver, but it is doubtful the reputation he built at the collegiate level ever will permit him to get a coaching job in the NBA. Under Kevin McHale's watch in Minnesota, the Timberwolves have been knocked from the first round of the playoffs for seven consecutive seasons, which is not even its ultimate indignity. That occurred when it lost five straight first-round picks for cheating -- illegally signing an under-the-table agreement with Joe Smith, a middling front-court player who has been a career underachiever. Patrick Ewing has done nothing to distinguish himself as an assistant coach, though give him credit for paying his dues. Charles Barkley is wildly successful as a television entertainer, but has been unwilling to attempt to coach or manage a team. The only player from the class of players who turned around the fortunes of a once-foundering league is the person who recently cut loose Isiah, and that is Larry Bird. As head coach of the Pacers, he took them to the NBA Finals, where, in rich irony, they lost to the Lakers, Bird's old nemesis. He left his job gracefully, and now he returns gracefully, making strong decisions based on a gut that has served him well over the course of his life. Why is this phenomenon happening? I don't have answers, only questions. Thomas was fired because Bird felt he was not dedicated enough ... Jordan has the reputation that he is not willing to do the legwork in the back woods of small college towns to discover talent; Magic is too wrapped up in his own business dealings to handle exclusively running an NBA team. Is it that many of these people were elevated to iconic levels when they were players, and so they were automatically placed into jobs for which they were not prepared because of their names and reputations? Is it that the game came so easily to them, they thought that the next step would be just as simple? One of the first things that Nate McMillan told me that shocked him about making the transition from player to coach is that the pay is halved and the work is doubled. Players play, for two hours a day, and then kill time. Coaches watch hours of film, plan practices, have meetings, deal with the media and worry about the next game. General managers deal with agents, scout, travel, crunch numbers and talk to other general managers. Thomas was fired because Bird felt he was not dedicated enough; Drexler's work ethic already has been detailed; Jordan has the reputation that he is not willing to do the legwork in the back woods of small college towns to discover talent; Magic is too wrapped up in his own business dealings to handle exclusively running an NBA team. One of the theories in any sport is that superstars do not make good coaches because they can never understand how a player struggles to play the game, and so they have little patience. Perhaps that is why we see guys like Doc Rivers, Byron Scott, Rick Carlisle and Mo Cheeks have some semblance of success while the guys who led their teams during their playing days are faltering. But what it also means is that because more of the stars of the past are not finding success, we see men like Mike Dunleavy, Tim Floyd, Jeff Van Gundy and Hubie Brown get hired, hired and then re-hired, even though some of them have not had a great deal of success. What we hope to see happen in the players' post-playing days is what we see happening in the current playing days, as depresing a trend as it may be. Players play for money, fame, women and notoriety, and then in about their seventh season they remember, "Oh, yeah, we're supposed to win." At some point we hope that the leaders of yesterday -- Magic, Michael, Zeke, Clyde, Patrick, Charles, Kevin -- realize that it is not so much about pride but about success and they figure out how to become the leaders of tomorrow.
Read the article. Is it just me or was there no seperation between the writer's lips and Bird's a$$? He made O'Neal sounded like a whinny youngster and Bird (dead beat dad) like a venerable saint. Yes, O'Neal got the $126 mill but don't forget, he could've got pretty much that with any other team via S&T or even just the maxium on teams like SA with no state income tax. If they trully mislead him on Thomas being there, then it's just a sham. In most of the business world, if it a party mislead another party into signing a contract, it would be considered fraud and contract would be voided. The simple fact is O'Neal was lied to and manipulated into doing something and he is voicing his discontent with the matter. I hope he tank next season and force a move. Or better it, just focus on the stats and go for the bonus.
Bird is a Saint on this board apparently, and if he lied to O'neal, who cares, he has enough money. Bird can do no wrong.
PG, In defense of Larry, I don't think he is the one that promised O'Neal that Thomas would stay. I believe it was Walsh, but perhaps I am wrong.
I concur. These people decided that O'neal is the bad guy so they painted him in as bad a light as they could. (.i.e. says he is whining, pouting, naive, questions his heart ...) What the heck is wrong with Jermaine speaking up for his idol? What if he demands a trade? If he thinks he was mislead, why must he stay there? Larry can say whatever he wants, it does not make him right or wrong and he is certainly no god. Speaking of whining ... tell me that Larry has never done that !!
Well, I'm not going to call O'Neal a whiner or complainer, but Bird won NBA titles with two different head coaches, so I think he knows what he's talking about
agreed...if you lie to someone about a material fact to get them to enter into an agreement they wouldn't otherwise, that's a despicable thing. acting like o'neal is a bad guy in that transaction is ridiculous. i'm not an o'neal fan per se...i'm actually more of a bird fan...but this is just on its face wrong.
Say what you want about Bird, but the guy killed the Rockets in '81... he killed them in '86, and I was cursing him throughout both Finals. As a player, Bird was amazing. He didn't do too badly as coach, either. I don't blame him for not having patience with the primadonna attitude of much of today's NBA players. We have the same problem here.
Coach of the Year in '98. Took Pacers to the Finals his last year in 2000. Did he just luck out with a good staff? Enlighten me. I despise Bird as a Rocket killer, admire him as a player, and make no claim to know a great deal about his tenure as Pacers head coach. Help me out.
I don't this as much of an issue at all. About the equivalent to the SF "if Rudy goes, I go" crap. Just a guy being loyal to his coach. That doesn't mean he's a baby or he's not going to play ball. Here's some more from Oneal(bottom of page): http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/2/070246-9352-039.html O'Neal, Carlisle talk O'Neal took a call from impending Pacers coach Rick Carlisle Saturday and had a conversation that "went really, really well." O'Neal, who was vocally angry over the surprising dismissal of Isiah Thomas on Wednesday, took a positive tone toward Carlisle, who is expected to be named coach on Tuesday. "I'm here to help him," O'Neal said. "I'm here to play hard. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to win. The bottom line is that everybody has a goal and that's to win. There's no in-between in that. "He's a guy who really believes in me and I'm going to believe in him as my coach. "I hope people don't confuse my comments about management and my goals. My goals are still the same. I'm not going to come in and play half-assed. I'm going to try to lead Indiana to the (NBA) Finals."
Sounds like he got over it and came on board. O'Neal said the right things, which is good for the Pacers.
. Yeah, that's it. Bird just finally called someone on it. That line is really puss, if you think about it. You have a job and are part of the whole team. If you have to have Phil Jax, or Rudy, or whatever, what kind of baby are you? You obviously don't trust or value your teammates or respect the new hire or the organization (although not trusting Jerry R I can understand). JO should be a man and retract that earlier pout. That kind of "stuff" belongs to whiny 10 yr old brats. Bird just cuts through it.Its time someone finally called them on it. OK, big boy, back it up. Show who you are.
I don't know that he lucked out, but his staff did most of the 'coaching'. This was no secret and was often talked about.
I remember hearing some of that, now that you mention it. If true, I guess he figured out a better job for his talents... although the jury is still out on that, I think he made a good move getting Carlisle.
If Bird is going to make all his superstar players look like morons in the media, then I don't see him having much success. There is something to be said for taking a stand, but there is also something to be said for keeping it behind closed doors. Now how many players will hesitate to sign there?
If O'neal says they promised Thomas would be the coach and that's one of his main reasons for re-signing, he has a legitimate beef.
