I'm surprised this hasn't found it's way in here. http://www.newsday.com/entertainmen...7590680.story?coll=ny-entertainment-headlines As Cos tells it, we ain't learnt nothin' yet The Washington Post May 21, 2004 Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks at a Constitution Hall bash in Washington commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. To everyone's astonishment, laughter and applause, Cosby mocked everything from urban fashion to black spending and speaking habits. "Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what? "And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ... "They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he said. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't.' 'Where you is.' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!" When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African-American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.
Black or white, I find that sort of English kind of hard to understand...can you imagine a foreigner coming to Houston/the US for the first time and then trying to understand that sort of English? Not so easy!
What always amazed me was growing up in a town with a good number of black people, who I was reasonably good friends with, who spoke with no accent and tried in no way to be "ghetto", and then one day (and it wasn't because they hit puberty) they are gangsta gangsta. I've noticed this trend in young white males as well.
When in college, I was thrown in jail for about 4 hours (long and mostly innocent story involving an unpaid speeding ticket and expired plates). So I wouldn't be tempted to commit suicide over the heinous crime of an out-of-date sticker and a speeding ticket, they took my shoelaces, belt, and glasses away before I was tossed into a cell by myself. Looking around, I could make out blurry shapes that looked like guys both black and white. However, I couldn't understand a one of them as none could enunciate, they were all yelling at me at the same time, and without my glasses I couldn't see to make an attempt at lip-reading. So, feeling like Tommy, I just sat down and waited until Mom showed up and bailed me out of the big house. During the interim, I got a free candy bar from the guy who sold toothpaste and stuff... I had just had my shoulder length hair cut to a young Republican style the day before and he said "It's such a pleasure to get a nice, clean-cut young man in here... usually we only see long hairs... have a Butterfinger." Anyway, this thread reminded me of the time I was at the mercy of the man.
I think Cosby is losing it a bit --- everytime i've seen him on a talk show or whatever he has uttered a few weird comments. Did anyone see him on Lettermen a few months ago when he did a set laying down on the stage? It wasn't funny just odd -- I felt a little sorry for him.
There have actually been studies done on this. It's all historical. The examples that Bill Cosby used are actually a correct form. They are not using academic English, but they are correct in relation to most W. African languages. During slavery and many years after, many African Americans were denied education and it was at times illegal for them to educate themselves. They were from various tribes with similar language structure but different words. What ended up happening was they learned English words and applied the language structure of the West African languages. So in many cases what people believe is just slang talk, ignorance, etc. is actually structuralized. This is passed down from parent to student. Studies show that it takes takes 3 generations of good education and regular use of academic English to erase that pattern. Most people learn the rules of language before even starting school. For example a child who has never been to school will say I falled down. The structure would make sense because they added the 'ed' for past tense. So with the structure being passed down before schooling even starts and then often reinforced at home and with friends it's a very difficult pattern to break, especially considering the amount of times that African Americans have had relatively equal access to equal education. In addition these types of language problems are most common in four ethnic groups. The groups are Hawaiian, African American, Mexican American, and Native American Indian. These also are the four groups that were either conquered, or enslaved. Therefore a person from S. America in the United States will have less difficulty adopting to standard English than will a person from Mexico. Of course everyone is capable of learning and using standard English regardless of what group they are from, but it's important to not automatically dismiss certain speech patterns as simply being ignorant, or slang when they are actually following a correct linguistic structure.
Having accepted that candy bar wouldn't that make you his "b****" technically speaking in jail terms?
My dad speaks with one of the heaviest German accents I've ever encountered, yet I at the tender age of 14, didn't start speaking in this manner. Why is the problem only in Ethnic groups? The blacks kids I grew up with had the exact same education as I did so I'm not buying that argument.
Let me state that I agree with everything Mr. Cosby said in the piece above. I don't have a better word for it now but I will sure attempt to say anyways......there is waaay too much stupidity going around these days in America......and that is what Cosby was trying to highlight. But what I have not figured out yet is the true source of the problem and how I can contribute towards stemming it if possible.
What exactly was wrong with what Cosby said? IIRC he also has stated that he thinks there is no god, and if there was one, after his death the first thing he wanted an explanation for why blacks get so much crap in life.
The problem has to do with voluntary immigration vs. involuntary. And like I said it's not just education. The linguistic structure is there long before you go to schoo. A child who hasn't had one day of schooling might still say "I falled down." The structure of adding 'ed' to make it past tense is there and has nothing to do with education. It has to do with what you hear at home. I also pointed out that it's possible for anyone to learn to speak standard academic English. The studies are pretty clear. What is important to help better educate and teach academic English to these groups is to understand the difficulties and be able to address them. It's also important in knowing this so that people don't mistake a different linguistic structure for ignorance, or stupidity.
Watching Bill Cosby's stand-up and reading his writing, he's always been a bit less PC than I expect him to be. FB, I've heard the theory before. I'm not sure that having a sound linguistic explanation of the source of the mistake keeps it from being mistaken, though. You're right that Cosby is describing in microcosm a larger trend we can see in our society and history, and seemingly without much understanding or at least empathy. I'm not sure that he's casting blame so much as appealing to fellow blacks to lift themselves up.
I agree with you in some cases(rare from what i've seen), but I am sorry it IS ignorance and stupidity on the part of many. I've seen way too many people that can speak perfectly fine English (Black and White) who all of a sudden decide they are "ghetto" and choose to speak like that. Its similar to a person coming from Germany who can barely speak english and uses words incorrectly all the time. After learning the correct way to speak over the years, if they went back to speaking incorrectly because they think its cool even though it is going to set them back. That is ignorance and stupidity and that is what is occuring with many people today.
Languages evolve into dialects over the course of time...just because you have negative associations with a certain dialect doesn't mean that dialect or the person speaking is stupid. Instead, it's a sign of insularity and how polarized societies are when this happens I imagine Romans thought that the Ancient Iberians were stupid for the way they spoke latin in bizzarre, incomprehensible terms, also known as spanish.
