Eh... I'm not so sure but it would be kinda cool. Biggio a Hall of Famer 2B? http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/mlb_news_story.jsp?article_id=mlb_20020319_biggio_cols&team_id=mlb KISSIMMEE, Fla. -- Maybe some day Craig Biggio will finally get the respect he deserves. But that's assuming that the world is fair and, of course, that isn't always the case. So we will have to wait and see whether Houston's stalwart sparkplug of a second baseman will get his just due several years from now by being voted into baseball's Hall of Fame. The subject came up thanks to e-mail from several readers, who wondered whether Biggio, regardless of what he does for the rest of his career, has already earned a place in baseball's shrine. It should be a given that teammate Jeff Bagwell, who has put up the numbers to back up a case for being perhaps the best all-around first baseman in National League history, is a lock for enshrinement one day. But it isn't as clear to some observers that Biggio has already earned a spot. To those who watch Biggio regularly, however, there is no doubt he should also make it to Cooperstown eventually. "Obviously Craig has been the best second baseman in baseball for a long time," Bagwell said. "He helped define the position the way it is today. First there was (Chicago's Ryne) Sandberg, then there was Craig and he has been the best since Sandberg. These are definitely very high credentials for Craig being in the Hall of Fame." The five most recent Hall of Fame second basemen to retire and their key statistics in comparison to Biggio's: PLAYER YEARS GOLD GLOVES* AVG. HRs RBIs Rod Carew 1967-85 0 .328 92 1015 Nellie Fox 1947-65 3 .288 35 790 Bill Mazeroski 1956-72 8 .260 138 853 Joe Morgan 1963-84 5 .271 268 1133 Red Schoendienst 1945-63 0 .289 84 773 Craig Biggio 1988-2001 4 .291 180 811 *Gold Glove Awards were first handed out in 1957 Biggio, 36, has spent 13 years in the Majors, compiling a .291 career average with 180 homers, 811 RBIs and 365 stolen bases. He broke in with Houston as a catcher, but also played some outfield before moving to second base to stay in '93. Biggio is a seven-time All-Star and the only player to make the All-Star team as a catcher and a second baseman, where he has won four Gold Gloves for fielding excellence. Biggio has already eclipsed the career totals for home runs, batting average, RBIs, hits, doubles, on-base percentage and stolen bases for another second baseman who was recently elected to the Hall of Fame, Bill Mazeroski. White Sox great Nellie Fox made the Hall of Fame on the strength of his great glove, but Fox's offensive numbers don't stack up well when compared with Biggio's. Biggio has fewer runs (1,650 to 1,305), homers (268 to 180) and stolen bases (689 to 365) -- but a better career batting average (.291 to .271) -- than Hall of Famer and two-time National League Most Valuable Player Joe Morgan. But Morgan played 22 seasons, or nine more than Biggio has thus far. Biggio's numbers compare favorably with most second baseman already enshrined and few who played the position have been as complete a player or as versatile as Houston's veteran. Of Biggio's contemporaries Robbie Alomar is considered a Hall of Fame likely, which is even more perplexing vis a vis Biggio since the two have put up similar numbers during their careers. Alomar, 34, has played 14 years to Biggio's 13, and has appeared in 2,034 games to Biggio's 1,955. Alomar owns a career .306 average, or 15 points better than Biggio's, and has stolen 446 more bases, but Biggio has the better on-base percentage (.381 to .378). The two are nearly even on home runs (190 for Alomar, 180 for Biggio) and runs (1,341 for Alomar and 1,305 for Biggio). Alomar has 1,018 career RBIs compared to 811 for Biggio but in Biggio's case it must be noted that he is a leadoff hitter and thus has fewer chances to drive in runs. Biggio led the league in batting with runners in scoring position last season (.388). "I think (Biggio) is a sure Hall of Famer, I don't know if he'll be a first ballot (selection) but I think he deserves it," said Houston coach and former Pittsburgh manager Gene Lamont. "When I first saw him he was a catcher and then he changed to second base and he turned into an outstanding second baseman. During the last decade I think he and Alomar have set the standard for second basemen." Lamont believes two factors have worked against Biggio as far as Hall consideration: He doesn't play in a major media market and he hasn't appeared in the World Series. The Astros have won division titles four of the last five years but have never won a postseason series. Alomar is with his fifth organization and Biggio has played his entire career in Houston. "Sometimes you're overlooked because you're in Houston, and (Biggio) hasn't played in a World Series, Robbie's played in a couple of World Series with Toronto and I think that's where he really kind of came to the front," Lamont said. "They're both impact players and they're both the best of their generation. And they both have a lot of good years left ahead of them." Sandberg, who retired following the '97 season after 16 years, hit .285 for his career with 282 homers and 1,061 RBIs and 344 stolen bases. Sandberg was a Gold Glove second baseman and won an NL MVP in 1984 but never played in the World Series. Sandberg is considered a strong candidate to be selected for the Hall of Fame when he becomes eligible next year. Biggio has a few more years left to add to his already impressive career totals. Perhaps then he too, like Sandberg, will be widely considered a lock for Hall of Fame selection. "He's a guy who changed the position, so if anybody deserves it, it's him," Bagwell said.
Craig Biggio is the only player in Major League history to make a transition from everday catcher to everyday second baseman. Still - I think He's going to have an uphill battle to get into the Hall.
Yeah, I think it says that in the article. He's also the only second baseman who turns double plays like a catcher throwing to second! It's aggravating as hell to watch him turn a double play. Grr...
like lamont said in the article, he should definitely make it but maybe not first ballot. the baseball hall of fame is easily the toughest to get into of all the sports. i remember for about 5 straight years he could have won nl mvp with very little argument.
No way. He was a good player, but if Jim Rice isn't in the HOF, Biggio should not be. Biggio's postseason history is my main beef for him going to the HOF.
For what it's worth, the latest Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract ranks Craig Biggio as the 35th best baseball player *ever.* Here are some quotes from the Nov. 21, 2001 Baseball Weekly: "Biggio? The 35th-best player of all time? A common response might be: You and your whole system must be nuts, James. James doesn't care. It doesn't even occur to him that he might be hurting his own cause even further when he forthrightly volunteers that Biggio is, in fact, his favorite player. He sees Biggio as a great and underappreciated player, but what really counts is that the Win Shares system agrees. James spent years developing the system, and one can rest assured he had loftier goals than to gerrymander a statistical excuse to exalt the Astros' leadoff hitter. It just so happened that in the case of Biggio, the results of the Win Shares analysis confirmed his gut instinct — and, perhaps, clashed with everyone else's. Biggio's ranking is somewhat higher than his raw stats alone might justify, because he played most of his career in the Astrodome, a poor hitters' park. Some might object to Biggio getting "extra credit" for this, on the grounds that the park never actually hurt his numbers that much. It's true — his home/road splits during his Astrodome years were fairly even. To James, however, this objection is a red herring. "It's not a question of how Biggio individually was affected by the park, but a question of how the park affected the value of his accomplishments." He sums it up simply: "Where runs are more scarce, runs are more valuable." To emphasize that subtle but important distinction, James uses the case of Bill Dickey: "Here's a guy who hit two-thirds of his home runs at Yankee Stadium, because he was a left-handed hitter who taught himself how to pull the ball right down the line. In another park, no one would have spoken of him as one of the all-time greats. "Now, is this a good argument that he wasn't one of the all-time greats? No! Those were real home runs he hit, and they helped his team win real ballgames. "We look at the value of what he did, not what he might have done elsewhere." You see, to James, all 100-RBI seasons are not necessarily created equal; a player's accomplishments must be evaluated in the context of their time and place. This goes a long way toward explaining how, for example, he is able to rate Jimmy Wynn over Dale Murphy, or Bobby Murcer over Dwight Evans — a couple of double-takes waiting to happen. It also helps account for Bagwell coming out as the fourth-best first baseman of all time, ahead of all-time greats such as Johnny Mize and Harmon Killebrew. In James' ranking of the Top 100 players, however, Biggio still comes out significantly ahead of Bagwell. This goes against the consensus that Bagwell has been the more valuable of the two. Bagwell has won an MVP award and has finished in the top 10 in the voting five times, while Biggio never has won the award and has been in the top 10 only three times. To James, however, Bagwell's supposed superiority is a mistaken impression, a natural result of the fact that much of Bagwell's value is concentrated in two of the most highly visible stat columns — home runs and RBI. He has a point: Few would dispute the notion that the MVP voters seem to have a giant soft spot for RBI men. For every RBI, there's a run scored, but the players who score the runs rarely get as much fanfare as the ones who drive them in. Houston's second baseman is a prolific run-scorer, and it's far from his only skill. "Biggio's skills are more subtle. It's hard for the mind to weigh the fact that Biggio does a number of things well. If you rate each of a player's skills on a 10-point scale, the player who has two 10s always will be overrated, it seems, and the player who has sevens across the board will be underrated." It is hard to argue James' point that Biggio has "really good skills in a lot of different areas." The 14-year veteran hits for average (with a career mark only nine points short of .300), hits for power (20 home runs five times, 40 doubles four times — including consecutive seasons of 51 and 56 doubles), draws 70 to 80 walks a year, was a fine basestealer who rarely got caught before he tore up his knee, and has won four Gold Gloves. All right, then. But Bagwell also is one heck of a ballplayer. If Biggio is even better, how come the two of them together haven't turned the Astros into an Atlanta-type dynasty? James's answer to that is that people tend to overestimate the impact of superstars. "People say, 'If Biggio and Bagwell are that good, why hasn't Houston won more?' Well, Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig — two of the greatest players of all time — played together for 10 seasons, during which time the Yankees won 'only' four pennants." The Astros have had Biggio and Bagwell for 11 years, and have won four division titles and finished second three other times. "This year's Diamondbacks are another illustration," he continues. "They had the two best starting pitchers in the league and got a monster year out of Luis Gonzalez," — three MVP-caliber performances — "but still only barely won their division." All right, James, what about Roberto Alomar, then? Doesn't Alomar do everything Biggio does, and more? How can Biggio come out ahead of Alomar, who's pegged as the 10th-best second baseman of all time, and the 80th-best player overall? "There is a great deal more reason to put Biggio and Alomar together than there is to separate them," he concedes. "You're talking about two players who have had careers of more or less the same length, and have been comparable in just about every department, on offense and defense. Before their careers are over, one may pull ahead of the other. "As of now, though, the biggest difference between them is that Biggio has been able to produce about as many runs as Alomar, while playing in a park where it took fewer runs to get a win." It's true, Biggio has scored more runs per game than Alomar, even without taking their ballparks into account. Biggio's career on-base percentage is four points higher, and his slugging percentage is within 20 points of Alomar's. "Alomar has won more Gold Gloves (nine, compared to Biggio's four) and is more adept at making the spectacular play, but their defensive numbers say there isn't much difference between the two. As I see it, Biggio has delivered more wins to his team, in his best seasons, than Alomar — not a lot more, certainly, but he's clearly ahead." He might have been ahead, but without James, it might never have been clear to the rest of us. At least the Astros have held onto Biggio. They didn't have the good sense to do that with the top second baseman on James' list, Joe Morgan. Perhaps if Morgan had spent his entire career in the Astrodome, people never would have realized how good he really was, either." The rest of the article: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/2001-11-21/2001-11-21-cover.htm
I think Biggio should and will get in. Imagine if he played for a popular team like the Yankees or Sox. Even without postseason success he would be rated one of the best second baseman to ever play the game.
Comparing stats to those other 2basemen to get in, it almost seems as if Biggio shoudl already be a lock. With the possible exception of Joe Morgan, his numbers make him easily the most versatile player on that list. A World Series appearance / win would help, and to do that Biggio would have to get on base more in the postseason, but he should be in regardless.
Ridiculous. Check Ted Williams' & Barry Bonds' (just to name 2, there are countless others) postseason stats, are their careers somehow lessened by their lack of playoff success?
Buck, your name reminds me of that Kids in the Hall skit about the high school kids in a garage band called Rod Torkelson's Armada. I've just been meaning to tell you that.
I remember that skit...pretty funny stuff. The name's from George C. Scott's character in Dr. Strangelove. Ever see the Kids in the Hall skit about Hitler & the donkey? Quite possibly the funniest 30 seconds in television history.
Can't say that I recall the Hitler/donkey skit. It's been a while since I've seen Strangelove, but that's a great movie. I have it in my Netflix cue, but it's still a little ways down.
Bringing this back around to the topic, were he to retire today, no way. Long term, I think Biggio has a good but not great shot of going into the Hall. However, I have in the back of my mind a sneaking suspicion that he may end up in the American league DH'ing for a year or two to cement an induction. He is currently @ 2149 hits. 3000 is a "magic number", and very reachable within (say) six more years.
I agree that with his current numbers, it's an iffy proposition. But two or more solid years will greatly improve his case. As far as the DH possibility goes, Biggio is so hyper, I don't see how he could sit on the bench while his team is in the field without going crazy.
Topic, shmopic. Before the series stopped, they did an episode of all the skits that they weren't allowed to air before. This one probably doesn't translate well, but here goes: Picture a Midwestern-type farmer, in overalls & chewing on a wheat stalk, standing next to his young son Son: Daddy, what's that bad man doing to my donkey? Dad: Son, that's not just any bad man, that's Adolf Hitler, & I do believe he's f***ing your donkey. Cut to "Hitler's" face, in the throes of passion, covered in sweat The End. Not sure why, but I laugh every time I think about it.
Bill James has a couple of interesting tools called the HOF Standards rating and the HOF moniter. The HOF standards is a rough metric used to see a players worth relative to an average HOFer. The HOF moniter is a rough metric designed to show how likely a player is to be a HOFer. Currently, Biggio's HOF standard is 43.7 (average HOFer ~50). Currently, Biggio's HOF moniter is 89.0 (likely HOFer > 100, surefire HOFer > 130). A couple of other little tools are the black and grey ink moniters. Black ink is a measure of how many times a player lead the league in a catagory and grey ink is a measure of how many times a player was in the top 10 in a league catagory. Biggio's black ink is 17 (average HOFer ~27). Biggio's grey ink is 95 (average HOFer ~144). So, if Biggio retires is the next 2 or 3 years, he has at least a respectable chance to get in the HOF. If he plays a few years longer than that (to get 3000 hits for instance) then his chances rise significantly).
I think a great deal of his HOF contention is going to be determined by how well he recovers from his knee surgery. I have read articles that claim that last season, on the injured knee, Biggio was a full 50% weaker than the healthy knee. Now they are claiming he is 90%. Now granted, this could all be spin by the organization, but I am hoping it is true. If it is true, it might be the reason his defensive range dropped significantly last season, and why his SBs dropped quite a bit. If Biggio can get his speed and range back, he might be able to get back close to his top form. Now, I know he is already 37, and odds are he won't be able to get back to his '99 form, but with today's medical technology (look at Barry Bonds), it is certainly a possibility.
If Biggio were a 17 time all-star with 2 MVP awards, 2 triple crowns, and a career .344 average then maybe you'd have a point.
So you're suggesting that the totality of a 10+ year major league career is overshadowed by the miniscule sample size of approx. 100 playoff at-bats in Biggio's case? Nowhere did I suggest that Biggio is of the same caliber as Bonds/Williams. Nowhere did I suggest that their playoff failure diminished their achievements. All I said was "Are their careers somehow lessened by their lack of playoff success?" For me, they're not. Personally, I think Biggio will get into the Hall. I was just making the point that to exclude someone based on playoff performance is ridiculous (ala Bill Conlan's "I didn't vote for Nolan Ryan because I wouldn't want him starting Game 7 of the World Series" b.s.).
