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Bernie Sanders Health Plan Savings for Nearly Everybody

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Which I think is rather what I've been trying to get at. We've two problems in healthcare: not everyone has access, and costs are too high. Our private insurance model was in the way of universal access. But the crux of the costs is the pay-per-service model, not the insurance model; or thinking of it another way, the problem is at wholesale, not retail. Bernie talked about how he'd change the retail end for healthcare consumers, but didn't talk (that I saw) about how our healthcare wholesale providers, the hospitals and doctors, would be compensated for their services.
     
  2. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

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    I see what you're saying.

    As of now, with the way costs are, and lump sum payments, I think it's really crippling things. My place of work, for instance, is a free standing outpatient cancer center. Because of Obamacare, we've had to rework our structure. As a freestanding center, we are not entitled to discounts that hospitals receive on pharmaceuticals, which is a large portion of our expenses. Because of that, our higher ups have had to rework our business model, essentially, which could largely disturb the flow of our workplace, placing a strain on patient experience, which could lead to lowering our reputation. In fact, they say that we'll have to start taking in 10x our current donations to remain where we're at.

    Unfortunately, at the current rate, this is whatbjas to happen. Adaptation.
     
  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    What does any of that have to do with Obamacare?

    I don't think anyone else is "entitled" to discounts on pharma. What they have is a large "power of the buyer" because they are so huge, they have leverage in negotiations.

    Seems like your issue is not Obamacare, but instead the prices you get from Big Pharma.
     
  4. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

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    It's both, I just didn't state the case clearly enough. Not being an impatient facility leads to costs rising from Big Pharm.

    The changes made from Obamacare is what left us to restructure due to falling reimbursements.

    Those two coupled together left us needing the 10x donations to stay operating with the same services.
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    ?

    Exactly. Some of these relatively great changes come out of the blue. Arab Spring. Berkeley Free Speech Movement which sparked the 60's. Bernie? Don't be afraid to hope.

    A couple of years before the "1960's" as we call them now everyone was talking about the total apathy, consumerist contentment of Americans with virtually everything.

    Medicare is familiar to many Americans. In fact I have recently gotten old enough to be on it. It is not some weird unknown that will require a generation to wrap your head around. It is true that the propaganda from the insurance company parasites is strong.

    Got to tell you guys with a little supplement Medicare (and Berniecare is by some reports even better) blows away 90% of the coverage you all are so desperate to cling on to. Better than the coverage that my wife had under the HISD school district.

    A lot of folks like to talk about being self employed or rugged entrepeneurs well it is more possible if you don't have to stay at a corporate job for the insurance. There are at least several million and I bet 10 million or more folks 55 or over who have all the money they need and are burned out on their jobs which are a rung or two above you. They would retire/ semi-retire, consult or whatever so you could take their jobs when you need the heavy income for house notes and kids.

    Lot's of things will be better. E.g the drug abuse and also the untreated mental illness to prison pipeline will be somewhat disrupted when folks can get treatment when they have no money simply without dealing with complex welfare rules
    .
    I have seen men begging criminal judges to send them to treatment and not just put them on probation after they did stupid things like steal something small from the corner store where they are well known when relapsing on untreated crack addiction.
     
  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    Sam is right, there is no traditional route to achieving the things Bernie aims to achieve. It's really impossible to debate that.

    But to say that there are no new ways to do things, or that events can't take place unless they follow a traditional route... that's an incredible amount of irrational cynicism.

    Is it likely that hundreds of thousands of Americans will go outside and tell their current representatives to GTFO of their seats? Absolutely not. Less than a 0.1% chance.

    I would say the chances are as likely as the chances of slow progress being maintained. A republican will take office one day in the future and in two terms send a lot of this stuff back in time. Especially if you look at it rationally i.e. in comparison with other countries' progress. America is crawling in these areas and a lot of the world is running. Many of the European nations are walking at least. These European nations which are routinely cited as shining examples of healthcare - they are getting better. They're not settled into this. They are improving all the time. They have their oligarchs and their corporations exerting power, but they're not nearly as strangled.

    The biggest change that can take place in healthcare is a dramatic change to the consciousness of Americans. Bernie can at least put Americans in a state of knowledge, awareness and power to make a change in the not so near future. He is not going to eliminate what medical care is currently in place unless he has a victory sealed for a plan, so nothing to lose there. He will certainly protect the progress Obama has made.

    Do you really want to spend the next 8 years winning and losing small battles with Hillary or would you rather start tightening the noose around the campaign financing issues that are preventing you from joining your modern peers in the world? Do you want to save $200 in the next 8 years or do you want to save $5,000 in 20 years?

    One thing you can't deny is, Bernie has been playing this game longer than Hillary. We are out here talking about him as if he is somehow unaware of the obstacles to getting these things passed. He has spent 40 years in this b*tch. He knows the politics of getting something passed. He knows how to flatten and boobie trap proposals to get republican support, but he is plainly telling you: he doesn't want to do that, and he knows he will not be able to just get these things by being president and putting to bed large scale popular support as Obama did. He knows these things. He can easily do what Hillary wants to do, there's no difficulty in giving people something and giving corporations something with the other hand, that's a standard politician. Doesn't take a genius.

    He is suggesting an unprecedented change to the method of influencing politics. He has never said that he can achieve these things by emulating the traditional route. Give the guy a shot I say. He will, at the very least, bring a large portion of the disenfranchised population back into the political process and there are few things on the table more valuable than that.
     
  7. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    Feel the Bern!!! Free healthcare, free college, free everything and rich people will pay for it!!! Makes total sense to me!!!!

    :rolleyes:
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Military spending that is as much as the next largest 14 militaries in the world combined and have everyone pay for it!!! Makes total sense to me!!!!

    :rolleyes:
     
  9. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    Wow, another liberal wingnut. Common sense is lost on people like you. :rolleyes:
     
  10. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Is that statement false? That our military spends more money then the next 14 combined?

    Serious question, idk.
     
  11. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    You're a low information, wingnut sheeple so your confusion is understandable.
     
  12. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Bernie suggests his plan is payed for by creating new taxes and raising other taxes. You suggest we pay for it with decreased military funding? What and how deep do you propose? Do you want to spend even less per member of the armed forces or simply reduce the size.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    There's tons of fat that can be trimmed from the military budget, of course there are better and easier places to cut money from in the overall US budget....like entitlements, but that would cost people votes instead of buying them votes with "free stuff"
     
  14. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    It's attitudes like this that are the reason this country lags behind.

    AAHHH IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE! IT WILL NEVER WORK!!!! LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOOOOUUUU!!!

    Oh wait every other industrialized nation has a single payer system and by every metric known to man they outperform the US both in cost and quality?

    Heard this rhetoric about Obamacare and we will continue to hear it going forward. You know what we never hear from the GOP?

    An alternative plan.
     
  15. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    Wow here is CW to add absolutely nothing to the conversation as usual. It is just like clockwork. It is almost as predictable as an Obama bad decision.
     
  16. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    What rhetoric about Obamacare??? Everything I heard has absolutely come to pass. It has brought higher premiums, higher deductibles and higher copay's just as predicted. Obamacare didn't even touch the biggest driver in healthcare cost which is out of control malpractice insurance by instituting any tort reform at all.
     
  17. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    What have you added? fchowd0311 posts something that is factual and you attack the poster not the content.
     
  18. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    I see this often but I either never hear specifics or people just mention Navy and expensive planes. Politically it is almost impossible to use ground forces so Navy and jets are kinda important.

    The alternative is to never become involved shaping the world with military force.
     
  19. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Actually I was drawing a parallel with other transformational, large-scale projects that entailed a lot of cost, innovation and were actually anathema to our culture back then: particularly the energy or impetus towards a massve standing army; that's also why I qualified that we "had to" do them, just like I qualified all the free stuff as "basic" and for "those who need it."
     
  20. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I added the rationale for why you have yet to have an intelligent discussion in this forum. You're full of wingnut sheeple rhetoric but bereft of facts or data or any ideas of your own. Yes, it's just like clockwork.

    Do you have any substantive response to fchowd's point that we spend more on the military than many of the next highest countries combined? Do you have any substantive response to the fact that the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is health care costs? Here's your chance, please refrain from citing bible prophecy in your response. Thanks.
     

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