Instead of Jahidi White, who is little more of a rebounding asset than Kelvin Cato, why not the Rockets go after a true rebounder like Ben Wallace or Danny Fortson? Wallace averaged 6.4 ppg and 13.1 rpg for the Pistons. Fortson averaged 16.7 ppg and 16.3 rpg in 5 games for the Warriors last season. Either of these would seem like a great deal for Walt Williams, with even a draft pick added. The only thing is if the Rockets could pull off that kind of deal.
5 games is not a significant enough length of time to properly judge. They could not. There is no way we could get either of these for Walt Williams.
The problem with Fortson is he always gets injured. Last season he only played 6 games averaging 16.7 points and 16.3 rebounds in 34 minutes. He was on one of my fantasy teams getting more fantasy points than Garnett at the time . That's just the problem though, just 6 games. The two years previous he played in just 55 and 50 games, respectively. Also Fortson is just 6-8 and a forward. His rebounding numbers are for real though. In 99-00 he averaged 6.7 rebounds in just 15.6 minutes in the 55 games he played. As for Wallace, I don't think he's even available (especially for offers like Walt Williams). Detroit loves the guy.
Tolpatsch, what are you talking about? Ok, sure 5 games is not much time to judge but Fortson has a 7.8 rpg career average with a 22.4 min/pg career average. That's amazing. Also, note that I added that Williams plus a draft pick would be a good deal for either of these guys.
Fortson <b>CAN</b> rebound, getting at least 12 boards a night easily, that's not a question on anybody's mind who has followed this guy's career. He is a monster on the glass and hustles like crazy. Very seriously close to a Rodman-type in terms of numbers. Having said that, this seriuos foot injury has plagued him for the last 2 years and I don't know that it's worth the risk to have to count on him this year. He's already had 2 surgeries on the same foot, so counting on a strong rebounder with a historically bad foot doesn't sound like a smart thing to do. All this, and not to mention the fact that Fortson is a solid 4, not a 5.
Fortson was an absolute hoss when he was at Cincy in college but we have enough injury-prone guys as it is with Collier and Cato plus we could never get him just for Walt and a draft pick. Call me crazy but I think his upside (if he could ever stay healthy) is tremendous. Also, he's not a 5, so unless Mo moves to the center spot, which he probably won't like or do, then it's sorta mute point. As for Wallace, he could replace Carlos in the big hair department. However, I don't think he'll be leaving his team at least not for the Wizard and a draft pick just because I don't think the Pistons really need a player like Walt.
Fortson is a great rebounder... One of the best in the league in fact... However, he is only 6-7 and has a hard time playing defense... He's is strictly a PF, and has a hell of a time matching up against 6-10 guys... Also, he cannot be a starter for the mere fact that he has no offensive skills at all, and would foul out in the 1st quarter... He's a decent backup PF, who the Rockets sure could use for the mere fact that he can rebound... As much as I bag on Walt, I'm not sure if I would trade him straight up for Fortson... Fact remains we do need Walt's shooting... Though we also need Fortson's rebounding...
We don't need Walt much at all. We have way too many small forwards. The only real reason he's still here is because of his friendship with Steve, Cuttino etc. If Golden State actually would trade Fortson for Walt (which they wouldn't) I would do that trade in a second.
First off, I wasn't really speaking of Fortson as a center, just a guy who could board for us. Also, I don't think it's out of question that if we had a guy like him that he would start over Griffin, who will probably be taking a learning approach to his game this year. Also, Ben Wallace would be a decently legitimate center who could play hard nosed defense and fill our biggest weakness, rebound. If he got 30 minutes and 15 boards splitting the pf/c with Cato and Taylor he would be a miracle. I don't think Walt Williams and a first rounder(say the one from the Raptors) would be an unfair offer for him. Also, knowing their current situation with the Grizzlies, I don't think the Pistons would refuse any offer for extra first rounders.
Detroit would not give up Wallace for a crappy offer like Williams + a 1st rounder. They are high on him. What situation with the Grizz? The Grizz owe DETROIT a first rounder, not vice versa. Fortson is not an answer at center either, and we have plenty of people who can play PF.
I'm not really sure how much we'd want to acquire someone to take up more minutes at 4...While I agree that we need rebounding, the time to address that deficiency at the PF spot was before comitting 48 million to Mo Taylor...Between him and Griffin, I don't see another guy coming off the bench to grab the occasional board as being all that vlauable considering our other, more glaring needs...
Why dont we give up something of value for Wallace. How about Langhi, sign and trade Mooch, and Kenny Thomas for Wallace.
First off, I wasn't really speaking of Fortson as a center, just a guy who could board for us. We already have 3 quality power forwards. Also, I don't think it's out of question that if we had a guy like him that he would start over Griffin, who will probably be taking a learning approach to his game this year. Also, Ben Wallace would be a decently legitimate center who could play hard nosed defense and fill our biggest weakness, rebound. If he got 30 minutes and 15 boards splitting the pf/c with Cato and Taylor he would be a miracle. I don't think Walt Williams and a first rounder(say the one from the Raptors) would be an unfair offer for him. Ben Wallace would be a decent center/power forward for us, but no way in hell we get him for Walt and a Raptors 1st rounder. Think of this from Detroit's point of view. Their top young center who they love and who works extremely hard for an old SF with a $5 million dollar contract and a draft pick that will be around the 20's. Rodney White and Cliff Robinson will get all the minutes at SF and Stackhouse will get all the SG minutes. Also, knowing their current situation with the Grizzlies, I don't think the Pistons would refuse any offer for extra first rounders. Why does their situation of having an excellent pick from the Grizzlies make them want more 1st rounders?
Ok yes thanks for correcting me, Vancouver owes Detroit the pick, not vice versa. Also, certainly if acquiring a player such as Fortson, the Rockets would rid of a player at his position. It just happens that he would be better than any current big men excluding Griffin and maybe Taylor. Knowing his propensity to get injured, his trade value would lessen making Walt and a 1st rounder not out of question, but certainly worth the risk. In regards to Ben Wallace, maybe the trade offer I suggested is a bit unbalanced, but I don't think he is as untouchable as some of you would like to think. A trade of Walt, Kenny Thomas, and a first seems more than fair. If that to you seems like bad compensation still, please tell me what you think is even for Ben Wallace.
I think Detroit would want someone that could start at center for them in return, if they were to trade Wallace. I came up with this 3 team trade that might work: Orlando Trades: Bo Outlaw $6,000,000 to Detroit Orlando Trades: Pat Garrity $1,569,691 to Detroit Orlando Signs Troy Hudson for around $1 mil and trades to Detroit Detroit Trades: Ben Wallace $4,500,000 to Houston Detroit Trades: Chucky Atkins $3,300,000 to Orlando Detroit Trades: Victor Alexander $1,000,000 to Houston Houston Trades: Kenny Thomas $946,920 to Orlando Houston Trades: Walt Williams $5,000,000 to Orlando Houston Trades Raptors 1st Round Pick to Detroit Houston Trades Raptors 2nd Round Pick to Orlando Houston Gets: Ben Wallace $4,500,000 Victor Alexander $1,000,000 Total = $5,500,000 Houston Trades: Walt Williams $5,000,000 Kenny Thomas $946,920 Raptors 1st Round Pick $0 Raptors 2nd Round Pick $0 Total = $5,946,920 Detroit Gets: Bo Outlaw $6,000,000 Pat Garrity $1,569,691 Troy Hudson $1,500,000 Raptors 1st Rounder $0 Total = $9,069,691 Detroit Trades: Ben Wallace $4,500,000 Chucky Atkins $3,300,000 Victor Alexander $1,000,000 Total = $8,800,000 Orlando Gets: Walt Williams $5,000,000 Chucky Atkins $3,300,000 Kenny Thomas $946,920 Raptors 2nd Rounder $0 Total = $9,246,920 Orlando Trades: Bo Outlaw $6,000,000 Pat Garrity $1,569,691 Troy Hudson $1,500,000 Total = $9,069,691 Why this works for Houston: They lose Kenny Thomas but Eddie Griffin can take his minutes at PF. They lose Walt Williams, but they're stacked at SF. They lose the draft picks they got for Hakeem as well. They get Ben Wallace a extremely hardworking rebounding monster who could start at center for them. They get Victor Alexander?? as a cap filler. C: Wallace/Cato/Collier PF: Taylor/Griffin/Wallace SF: Griffin/Anderson/TMo/Bullard SG: Mobley/Langhi/Francis PG: Francis/Norris Why this works for Detroit: They lose Ben Wallace their talented young center. They lose Chucky Atkins opening room for Mateen Cleaves to play more. They lose Victor Alexander. They get Bo Outlaw who plays a lot like Wallace, but not quite as good of a rebounder or scorer. They get Pat Garrity a sharpshooting guy who can create a 3 man forward rotation of Cliff Robinson, Rodney White, Pat Garrity. They get Troy Hudson, who can effectively backup Cleaves. They get a the Raptors 1st Round Pick. C: Outlaw/Moore PF: Robinson/Garrity/Outlaw SF: White/Garrity/Williamson SG: Stackhouse PG: Cleaves/Hudson Why this works for Orlando: They lose Bo Outlaw, but already had Patrick Ewing, Andrew DeClerq and Steven Hunter at center and Horace Grant and now Kenny Thomas at PF. They lose Pat Garrity who is talented, but expendable with Grant Hill and Mike Miller both at SF. They lose Armstrong's backup, Troy Hudson. They get Kenny Thomas to backup Grant. They get Walt Williams simply because his contract expires at the end of the season and they want that extra $5,000,000 in cap space. They get Chucky Atkins to help at PG, due to the Armstrong's streaky play. They also get Toronto's 2nd Rounder. C: Ewing/DeClerq/Hunter PF: Grant/Thomas SF: Hill/Miller/Walt SG: McGrady/Miller PG: Armstrong/Atkins
Wallace has the hack a Shaq problem to the Nth degree. This guy was airballing free-throws last year. With Cato's propensity for foul trouble and injury, that could turn into a real problem. Of course, having four other guys who could run the offense without him could alleviate the problem.
Wallace is young, getting the cash, starting, and loving the city. Why would he ever move? Fortson loves Golden State, starts over there, and is a much better option on that team. Fortson's offense is very underrated. His injured foot is FULY healed, and I mean EXTRA healed. He could've played at then end of last season if necessary. So he's had the whole summer as extra time-off to rest it. Why would these guys move if they love where they're at, and theyir teams love them? I think we should trade KT for Jamie Feick if he's healthy. He can come off the bench and grab some rebounds, hustle a lot. We gotta be more realistic about getting people.
