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Before Game 5, Jeremy Lin hadn't done a great job of being an offensive spark this series

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, May 1, 2014.

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Before Game 5, Jeremy Lin hadn't done a great job of being an offensive spark this series

  1. True

    282 vote(s)
    55.0%
  2. False

    231 vote(s)
    45.0%
  1. sleepyazn

    sleepyazn Member

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    If you take any weight into plus and minuses, throughout this series when Lin checked in the score and pace has picked up. Fact is that while he made mistakes down late, he has in fact done his job in jumpstarting the Rockets.

    This whole series between the Rockets and Blazers is a game of runs. When Rockets finally decide to stop fcking around and play some real defense, then the series will be over and we can start kneejerking about the next round.
     
  2. demarco1

    demarco1 Member

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    oh yes, by the way. if the question is " How do lin play, is he already play like he was?"

    then the answer NO, he is capable more then this right now, even Harden too, he is more capable then in the playoff so far...

    SO i still excited when everybody wake up and give a max energy in every single game until hold up the ring and smiles together... is that beautiful?
     
  3. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Whats the point of this thread? Why single out a role player for not "providing a spark" when our star is shooting 35 percent?

    He's had 2 bad games out of this 5 game series. In the 2 bad games, he shot under 20%, but he also only took about 5.5 shots per game, and only logged in about 23 minuets per game. In those 23 mins averages 4.5 points, 4 boards and 4.5 assist with 2.5 turnovers per game.

    So while his play in those 2 bad games definitely weren't a spark, they also were not THAT as terrible clutchfans is portraying it. Now, with last night in the books, Lin is having a pretty solid post season on paper, better then Beverley's (if were talking stats).

    He's now averaging 11.4 points (on 44%), 4.2 boards, 4.6 assist (2.0 turnovers), in 29 minuets. Just to throw in he's also shooting 92% from the free throw line which is pretty sweet (11-12).
     
  4. Allegro

    Allegro Member

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    The real question is where we would be without the huge run triggered by Lin in every game this series -- and I mean every game.

    I suspect we would be out of the playoffs already in a sweep.

    But don't worry, LOHs, you won't have to put up with Jeremy for much longer. He'll be gone soon, and you will really enjoy the losing.
     
  5. calcium

    calcium Member

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    When I saw the thread title, I rolled my eyes and thought to myself, "Not ANOTHER Lin thread?!!?!!!".

    And then I see it's Clutch who started this one.

    *shrugs*
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I don't think you understand the difference between being a fan of a player, and being a fan of a team. Whether Jeremy is here or not, the Rockets will be, and considering that they won 45 games last season with just 2 players returning from the previous year, and while being the youngest team in the league, and 54 games this season, Howard's first with the Rockets, we're going to be winning more games than we lose next season, whether or not Jeremy Lin is here. In my opinion, of course. And just in case you weren't aware of the possibility, one can be an ardent fan of a team while also having a favorite player. That player gets traded? You wish him well and continue to support your team. It's not Rocket science.
     
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  7. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    These are the kinds of posts that give Lin fans a terrible reputation.
     
  8. orochiyao

    orochiyao Contributing Member

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    yeah im sure the rockets will suffer greatly from losing a scoring threat that cant manage to put together atleast 8 20pt games in an entire season
     
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  9. hollywoodMarine

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    Eh, I wasn't insinuating that he was slighting Lin fans, and I certainly do give him the benefit of the doubt. I was simply saying the poll itself kinda has the effect of undermining the goal of having a diverse discussion, as it may just lead to name calling and making accusations about why it could be so skewed one way or another, or remarks about poster join dates, things that are not relevant to the discussion. I'm simply saying that, yes if the goal is to create a diverse discussion, and more importantly, some dialogue between Lin fans and skeptics, that's a noble goal, but having a poll (which is in itself kind of an adversarial/divisive tool, where you basically have to choose, like either you're with the LOF's or you're with the LOH's/LOFH's/Lin haters/Lin skeptics, whatever is the proper accepted term these days... and there is no in between) is not a good choice. But that is my opinion, and maybe I am blowing it out of proportion.


    That's exactly what I'm saying. Anyone who gets bent out of shape because of criticism of their fav player, and then proceeds to deny bad games or something, or blame his struggles unfairly on another player, that's being irrational. But it's not like all Lin fans are like that. Some people post as if every Lin fan is a severely misguided, unthinking, worshiper who thinks his idol can do no wrong. But there are actually some of us who would rather see who he really is as a player, and support THAT PERSON, than engage in some self-denial about him having the potential to be the next Chris Paul were it not for that Mcfail character. Yes, there are LOF's who can be really annoying and disrespectful, so I can understand that it can be hard to be patient with them, and it's only human to generalize.

    I wasn't talking about Harden to prop up Lin. I was talking about what a "good game" should mean, and saying simply that, IMO, doing all your damage in one quarter, vs spread out, really is irrelevant (or mostly irrelevant). I myself consider Harden to have played well yesterday, despite him being invisible the first half, and by the same token, I also feel the same way about Lin in games 1 and 3.

    No disagreements there.



    I know I'm a bit too "stats minded" and thinking too much in numbers, and you're kinda saying I need to just stop thinking about exact values so much, because you can clearly "see" or "feel" when someone is playing with huge confidence and obviously playing well. And to that I agree, but only in cases like yesterday, where it's CLEAR as day that he had a good performance. But when the a topic starts delving to performances that are less clear, where one may "feel" he played well where another may "feel" the exact opposite, things become much more subjective, hence we get so much back and forth arguing and going nowhere between LOF's and Lin skeptics. A lot of times it's like "OBVIOUSLY LIN played well today" where another poster would say complete opposite like "What? He was absolutely awful", and both posters would think it's clear to them how well he did. Times like that is when you have to break down the numbers and come to an accepted standard or something.

    Kinda like how we had a discussion awhile back where you said a good game can be where a player can produce things not seen in the box score, like breaking down the defense, and leading to hockey assists, etc. I totally agree, the problem is it is so hard to have an impartial discussion about these aspects of the game in a debate or argument over proper evaluation of a performance. One may see on intangible effect, like a positive effect, whereas another may see an intangible effect that's a negative, and it's hard for one side to really convince the other side, because both sides see their own subjective pictures. And that's when arguments and debates just go nowhere, or just keep going round and round.

    Ok this post is getting rather long, but I just want to say, one example is the confidence thing. You've mentioned this alot, that Lin is a confidence player, and it's clear as night and day when he is having a good game, he is playing with confidence, when he is having a tentative, timid game (like game 4), he is clearly not playing with confidence. The problem then comes into the grey areas, like game 3. Do you see his drives in the 4th quarter/ OT as acts of confidence or acts of desperation/ forcing, which just happened to go in? What about his earlier attempts where he was struggling? How are you sure that he was confident but it simply didn't go in, which may make you "feel" like he was just reckless? Different people may see different things in many grey area cases like that. And it's really hard to argue one case or another. Lin himself said he had the same mindset in game 4 as game 5, just that the shots wouldn't go in in game 4. Ok, that part is probably not true, as we can see from his body language he was hesitant in game 4. But the point remains that there may be games where he struggles, and ppl think it's because his confidence is absolutely shot, but Lin himself may even think he was aggressive and confident all throughout, but he just couldn't get those buckets.

    TL;DR, Not saying that just relying on what you see and judging how a player performs with your own eyes via things not shown up on the box score, like energy, confidence, etc. is not a viable way of evaluating a player. Just that, it is difficult to engage in debate with others who disagree with you on these same parts of the game where you can't measure in numbers, because it's so subjective. Anyway, not sure if any of my posts made sense, I just typed this up quickly after 2 days of 3 hrs of sleep from studying, so excuse me if I sound completely incoherent
     
  10. DOLPHIN2k2

    DOLPHIN2k2 Member

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    The difference is that the offense does not flow through Lin like Harden. You can't say because a player missed a bunch of bail out 3s make him a bad player. The fact is Lin is being completely misused. He is hiding in the corner jacking up shots most of the time while the PG's on the team are not generating offensive flows. Bev is a good defensive player but he doesn't make plays for other members of the team. In the regular season, the team has enough talent to win against most teams one on one. Harden and DH usually show up and the defense is less intense. In the playoff when the defense steps up, and your star players get focused on, you need to have other players become a threat. This is where a play making PG will be a difference.

    You can't honestly tell me that Lin was used the same way in the previous games in the series. It was obvious how different the team plays when he is playing the PG role with extended minutes vs hiding in the corner waiting to shoot a bail out 3.
     
  11. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Contributing Member

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    I don't agree with his post. The Rockets will be fine, with or without Lin. However, I've seen some real terrible posts by the Lin Haters. Look below at sig.
     
  12. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    There's no more bias in his question than there is in yours and it shouldn't change the reality of his performance or an honest answer to the question but somehow by a two to one margin, Lin has played great this series.

    I guess that means Harden has also played great. Lin has played great, Harden has played great. It's shocking we're down 3-2. Lin fan logic.
     
  13. d12babymamas

    d12babymamas Member

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    Definitely false because the word "great." But like I said in another thread, if you step back and think about it, Lin is a major reason we were not swept the other day. Game 2he made a huge hustle play and Game 5 he was a huge offensive spark. This is good enough for me. It would have been embarrassing if we had been swept especially with the talent we have on this team.
     
  14. jayland

    jayland Member

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    Lin is too streaky a player. He's like a Nate Robinson or JR Smith. When they are on they really help on the offensive end. But when their off they hurt the team with turnovers and other bone headed plays.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    I voted true.

    Now let's hope he does at least a good job in game 6 and hopefully game 7.
     
  16. d12babymamas

    d12babymamas Member

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    fixed LOL :eek:
     
  17. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Pay tucker
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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. calcium

    calcium Member

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    Hello.
    The bigger question for me is, "Why single out a single player?"
    Why not apply this to all the players.

    Besides, these things are almost empirical.
    ie. you can measure it, almost.

    And what is there to gain from this poll?

    You want to educate the so-called Lin Only Fans?

    Dude, I think the die has been cast.
    If they havent changed by now, this is going to do jack.

    Only thing one can achieve from this is to raise more conflict/bad feeling.
    As if we've not got enough of that, aye?

    Anyways, drum roll please.
    Bear in mind, these are my opinions only.

    We have 5 players in FRONT of Lin. Possibly 6 if you count Asik.

    Yes, Clutch did this for a player possibly #7 in the pecking order.
    Bear in mind we're only doing a 8 man rotation.

    My opinion in brackets.For this series so far -
    PBeverley - do you think he has provided the defense he's in the team for?
    [underperformed]
    JHarden - do you think he has been the franchise player that he is?
    [underperformed]
    CParsons - has he been the glue guy that he was during the regular season?
    [underperformed]
    TJones - not sure what I expected of him but I think he has been underwhelming.
    [underperformed]
    DHoward - has he been the rock in defence which he can be?
    [expectation achieved]
    OAsik - has he been the rock in defence which he can be?
    [expectation achieved]
    JLin - has he been the spark? There _was_ OT in game 3. But overall, no.
    [underperformed]


    See all those underperformed.

    That, my friends, is why we were in a 3-1 hole.

    :)

    Am just saying. *shrugs*

    [Did I repair any rift or just added to it?]
     
  19. d12babymamas

    d12babymamas Member

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    Last I checked we won 2 games and we will tie it up soon.
     
  20. zipcrash

    zipcrash Member

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    how is "false" the overwhelming answer?

    im happy he played well in game 5. the rockets need everyone in game 6. but to say he's done anything close to what he did in game 5 in this series simply isn't anything close to the truth.

    do other people share some responsibilities? for sure. the poll didn't ask that question though.

    im sick of LOH and LOF's. this is the definition of poisoning the well.
     

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