Let’s be serious. We are all guilty of it. Our emotions get the better of us over a particular hot button subject and we fling Mr. Hanky at a fellow BBS’er. It’s embarrassing the next day when you read what you wrote and the venom is gone. You know how it goes; you make a post with some levity to let everyone know you are not as vulgar as you came across. Or we start a thread here and there that is safe and fun. But even these sometimes end up smeared with poo. Does anyone remember pre-D&D? This crap damned near ruined the Hangout. So Clutch created an island for people to discuss and debate hot topics. Noble and novel concept. It was embraced and the Hangout went back to being fun. The D&D has evolved into a subculture of vicious hatred. Only two types of people populate it: immovable objects and unstoppable forces. There is no debate. No discussion. I cannot think of a single instance where someone’s opinion was altered by another person’s stance or information. Friends are not made. Votes are not swayed. Joy very rarely surfaces. Maybe that is what it is here for. It is the evil balance to an otherwise good site. Maybe without it the pathetic vitriol of the D&D Clutchcity (It’sll never be Clutchfans to me) would be too lopsided, its equilibrium off. I love reading some of the other sides takes in GARM, Hangout, and Texans etc. I wish I could have that same respect for the comments of others, including myself, in here. I reread that thread that Jeff locked earlier. He started the thing and I had a differing opinion on what he stated. I commented on a portion of his post and next thing you know he locked it for a derailing violation. My first thought was…p***y. Someone differs so he takes his ball and goes home. The rest of us now have no ball to play with. The more I though about it I realized that he’s not a p***y. Hell, he’s a friend of mine, a guy that I think is incredibly interesting and shares a love of music and an appreciation of art like I do. No, he’s not a p***y, he was right to take the ball away. The thread was going in the wrong direction and some things are better cut off early. Jeff – you gave an honest opinion and I was insensitive to your point of view. My bad. I will try not to do that crap anymore. Is there any shot in hell that we can actually debate and discuss topics in here? Any way in hell? I will avow right now to not get personal or post shallow rhetoric in this forum. (Hangout is a different story). I will be more respectful of other people’s opinions and not get in pissing matches with anyone. I will not be the immovable object. If I get off track remind me with the following phrase: Chance, you are better than that. Is anyone else in?
Ya, I would love to see a place where we can legitimately discuss issues. I have to disagree with you on one point though. I have changed my mind because of threads posted here. I believe that a free exchange of ideas can change people's minds on some issues. On others, you are correct, there is no budging. I respect everyone's right to have an opinion in here and I feel it is common that when you post an opinion you should back it up with facts. Most people when asked to provide proof do just that. Others do not. It is this very small minority that makes me nuts. I tried ignoring their rants, and hit and run tactics, but I'm tired of it. Trolls have no business in here and I think most everyone would agree with me on that.
Threads like this one where everyone promises to be more civilized in the future pop up periodically, but nothing really changes. I think that's ok.
I wouldnt say nothing ever changes...during the periods that civility is more widespread than normal, some of us lurkers decide to go ahead and brave the waters...and in certain cases, that has brought out some good posts. Pimphand's appearance is a perfect example.....Pimphand makes some great points in a respectful and intelligent manner. Therre are others that pop in from time to time that manage to avoid the pooflinging trap....but alas, they dont seem to stay for long when the pooflinging and rhetoric come back as strong as ever. this forum is great when it is good....but when its bad...its HORRIBLE.
Chance I guarantee you everything will be fine right after November 2nd. Don't sweat it because nothing will change now until then. I used to have a problem with the happenings around here until I got the revelation. The reality of all of this is that what you see here is just a mirror image of what is going on in the whole nation straightup and down - it is D&D forum imitating life. There is no need for this truce now because it is just windows dressing at best. The problem we experience now goes deep to the root that only will be bettered by the inevitable result of the November 2nd election. So relax, God (Jehova) will rectify this place in no time.
So Allah/Jehova/Jesus will come and make sure that people don't fling poo in the D&D? Nice...now we can breathe a sigh of relief. Thanks for sharing this valuable piece of information with us!
This is something I posted at the bottom of what was an attempt to keep thing reasonably civil, in the thread about Islamic USF Player, etc.... (the above is a public service message brought to you by the Keep D&D!! coalition... a non-partisan group of concerned political/religious/various&sundry-junkies, and loyal BBS members, devoted to the preservation of this Forum. Thank you. No applause necessary.) I don't things are as bad as you make out, Chance. There are a couple of folks here who seem to make an eager attempt to get other folks ticked off enough to post something they wouldn't normally post. Most of the things members post here that is "pretty out there," civility wise, usually realize afterwards that it was emotion, and not reason, talking, and frequently make an apology. In other words, much of this place polices itself, which is as it should be. I think, on the whole, that it has improved recently. Let's all work to keep improving the discourse. And, most assuredly, join the Keep D&D!! coalition. Thank you. No applause necessary.
Not true. This forum has been going downhill since before 9/11. The election won't fix it no matter who wins. In many ways, this was like a playpen for the "special" kids. No offense, but it was a way to get people out of the Hangout who wanted to act out, particularly when it came to controversial issues. It worked for a while, but it began creating its own subculture - this sort of black and white polarization where you are either all right or all wrong and whatever side of the fence you are on, the person on the other side is an idiot.
I agree somewhat, but disagree a bit too. There are plenty of people on both sides who tend to be respectful and constructive no matter the sensitivity of the subject. During my long and sometimes heated discussion of abortion with MadMax, we were both able to stay mostly civil and I have to admit that I clarified and solidified my position to myself as a result of that discussion. I think the real problem is the idjits who post just to goad, bait, and infuriate other posters. They throw around hateful slogans with no substance whatsoever and THOSE are the people (whether they back Michael Moore or the Swiftvets) who drive this forum to the lowest common denominator: mudslinging. I have said my share of things I would like to take back, but I would hope that if I got as hateful and nasty as some people here that an administrator would ban me so that the FORUM could return to civility even if I could not. I love this place and would truly hate to see it go. I would REALLY love this place if the people from the GARM and Hangout felt like this was a place where they could constructively debate topics that aren't kosher in the Hangout.
It may not get posted, but it happens. You get frustrated because you can't change the mind of the person you're arguing with, but others are witnessing the debate and learning from both sides. I'm one of those who will rubberneck in this forum from time to time, and I keep coming back because I find great discussions here on very important topics. I try to ignore the idiotic posts and the ridiculous extremism and focus on the well-reasoned ones. I, for one, do have my opinions influenced by what I read here, and at the links people post to back up their points. I don't post in this forum because I generally can't articulate my thoughts on these subjects any better than those I read. Plus, I don't want to get caught in the crossfire. On that note, time to duck out again. See ya. BTW, kudos to those of you who do brave these stormy waters and actually put a lot of thought and effort into the discussion. Super-kudos to those who keep it civil. Cheers.
andymoon, no disrespect indended, but... How can you call someone an "idjit" (idiot) and then condemn those that goad and post slogans when your own *signature*, which appears on every one of your posts, says this: Does this strike anyone else as being hypocritical?
Yes, it does. Then again, it's a bit of an honor to be mentioned in someone else's signature, be it positive or not .
Jeff, Why don't you guys just kill it? I know it causes grief for the admins and leads to all sorts of problems with posters. Just kill it. I have heard arguments from you guys on why it should die (Clutch in particualr) but I have never heard it defended. I am just curous, then, what has kept it alive.
The stuff that goes on in here is no different than what the candidates, especially Kerry, are doing. Name calling should be the only no-no. I think most of the people who want this forum to go away are the Kerry supporters because they know what they are in for: 4 more years.
A perfect example of what Chance is talking about. Like my other thread that I closed, this one took less than 8 hours to turn right back to poo flinging. Excellent. rimbaud: The reason it isn't shut is because of the fear that it will spill over into the regular Hangout or that mass bannings will be required just to shut people up. In many ways, the D&D is like the kiddie table at Thanksgiving. You relegate kids there so you don't have to deal with their stupidity directly. You just clean up the mess when dinner is over and, occassionally, give someone a time out.
