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Baseball's Worst General Manager

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Manny Ramirez, Jan 17, 2003.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Okay, maybe being the worst is an exaggeration, but I would have to say that Theo Epstein, the Red Sox's "boy wonder" GM, is up there.

    Let's review what has happened and more importantly not happened since he took over this off-season:

    1) Lost out on Cuban sensation Jose Contreras to the archrival Yankees

    2) Lost out on the opportunity to get Expos P Bartolo Colon thanks to Epstein's insistence of not giving up Casey Fossum:rolleyes:

    3) Thanks to Colon getting traded but not to them, they have also lost (more than likely) the chance of getting Javier Vasquez since the Expos will (probably) keep him

    4) Saw Clifford Floyd take less money to sign with the Mets instead of staying with them because of salary arbitration (in fairness, this is probably not Theo's fault; however, it sucks to have a guy for like 3 months and then lose him like that)

    5) Saw several other free agents like Jeff Kent and Edgardo Alfonzo spurn their offers to go elsewhere

    6) Now, out of desperation, he tried to sign Kevin Millar (after having other chances of getting him in the past) in an unscrupulous way and then was confident that Millar would reject playing in Japan to play with them. This doesn't look like it is going to happen and it only shows how desperate he is and the fact that he can't even get Millar shows how pitiful of a job he is doing.

    The only players he has gotten have been Jeremy Giambi :rolleyes: , Bill Mueller:rolleyes: :rolleyes: , Chad Fox (a guy who has talent but is injury-prone), and Ramiro Mendoza (the only truly WORTHY signing this jabroni has made).

    I read that he may go after David Ortiz or David Justice, but that will probably be the last move.

    Somehow, I cannot agree with Theo on his assertion that the Red Sox have one of the best rotations in the majors with Pedro, Lowe, Wakefield, Fossum, and John Burkett. Pedro and Lowe are great, Wakefield is inconsistent, Fossum is overrated by him, and Burkett is washed-up.

    Then you got this insane idea of his to use a "closer by committee". Yea, that is a good way to do a bullpen...

    I knew that when Billy Beane stayed with Oakland, that my Red Sox would be screwed.:( Just didn't realize that I would be right this soon.

    Any way, it has been a tough week (worked over 56 hours and have to get ready for a test Tuesday), so excuse me for venting, but the Millar fiasco is the last straw for me.
     
  2. BobFinn*

    BobFinn* Member

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    You neglected to mention his trading for Todd Walker (2b) from the Reds. A second baseman who can hit.
     
  3. gr8-1

    gr8-1 Member

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    Instead of having Colon, now they'll be facing him.
     
  4. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

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    Epstein has done a decent job this offseason.

    Getting Giambi, Walker, Mendoza are good moves

    Losing Floyd was a mistake, but ok. Not getting colon is bad, but to be honest, Montreal should not have accepted such a bad offer anyway. And colon is being overrated this offseason, and also if you get colon you likely lose pedro next year.

    Not getting Kent(the Red Sox never really had a chance at Jeff, all the factors pointed him to Houston-where he signed)

    Contreras wanted to be a Yankee reportedly, not Theo's fault.

    The redsox got outbid by the reigning NL champs for Fonzie when they saw Kent was going to Houston, again not Epstein's fault.

    Losing Urbina-no big deal, Uggie was way too inconsistent for his demands.

    Mueller is Hillenbrand trading insurance or will play 2b for you guys and fits in with the OBP strategy. Millar is decent but not special and he really got a nice offer from Japan(5.5 mil over 2 years, that he would never see in MLB right now.

    I hate the Yankees as much as anyone, but just because they spent so much, doesnt mean they are better. Matsui and Contreras are high priced unknowns, they lost a lot of their pen(and hammond is unlikely to even come close to last years numbers.)

    You are fortunate your favorite team can spend, look at Montreal, selling off prime talent because MLB owners want a slice of it for themselves.(they demanded the pay cut).

    A lot of teams would kill to have Boston's revenue and you want to know something else. The A's right now are still the AL's best overall team in my opinion.
     
  5. Zac D

    Zac D Member

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    Closer by committee is insane?
     
  6. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    I'll tell you what's insane.

    The fact that Billy Beane was too much of a p***y to take a chance.
     
  7. codell

    codell Member

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    Scott Layden

    ;)
     
  8. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

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    Hard to argue with that...

    Manny brings up good points to support his statement, but 2 powerful words...I dunno
     
  9. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Member

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    Manny, you're wrong.

    Never had a chance. Contreras wanted to be a Yankee, and took a lesser contract offer to play for them.

    He overrates Fossum, but like everyone, he saw the Expos were going to get screwed huge by having to trade Colon, and he was trying to get him for peanuts - like the White Sox did.

    It's not like you have anything to offer for Vazquez, since even with the whole, "Screw the Expos" movement by MLB, the Red Sox don't have the upper level prospects to get him. Though, maybe they would've let him go for crap like they did for Colon, this I doubt.

    Wasn't his fault. Again, the Red Sox really weren't in the running, in hindsight.

    Bill Mueller is a quality bench player, who can spot start for the BoSox. Chad Fox has talent, but is injury prone, its worth the risk. Jeremy Giambi is a good player, ESPECIALLY in the American League where the fact that he's the worst defensive outfielder in the league won't matter too much. Do not belittle the Giambi signing, he's going to be a guy who takes a whole bunch of walks and is always on base for guys like Manny and Nomar.

    Actually, its ****ing brilliant. Most Closers aren't too much better than regular relievers, they just get a fancy "save" statistic and look a lot better than they are. Not having a defined "closer" role is a great idea, especially given the make-up of the Red Sox's pen.



    Anytime you think you have the worst GM in baseball, think about where the White Sox were two years ago.

    Look at where they are now.

    And realize, you don't have the worst.
     
  10. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    DV and Pued,

    Both of you make good points, but you have to understand as a Red Sox fan for the last 18 years or so, it is EXPECTED for them to get an impact player, especially considering their revenue stream.

    I know that Contreras said that he wanted to be a Yankee, but the statement that he took less money to sign with them is not true because they (Contreras and his agent) stopped talks with the Red Sox after the Yankees made (what turned out to be) their final offer. Thus the Red Sox never even got the chance to top the Yankees (sorta like in OOTP when a computer team swoops in and gets a guy you are pursuing and that guy doesn't tell you about it:mad: :D ).

    I forgot about Walker until after I posted this, and Bob is right that he is a decent player.

    But let's look at their line-up:

    1) CF Damon - better than average
    2) RF Nixon - slightly better than average
    3) SS Garciaparra - perennial all-star
    4) LF Ramirez - perennial all-star
    5) 3B Hillenbrand - average (overall)/Mueller - defense/injury-prone
    6) 1B Giambi - average (overall, terrible fielder)/Hillenbrand (when he is not playing 3B)
    7) DH No clue
    8) C Varitek - slightly better than average
    9) 2B Walker - average (overall although above average in hitting)

    I think the top 4 is great and if Hillenbrand ever learned to take a walk, the top 5 is solid. But we could really use another big bopper in that lineup and I am not sold that Jeremy Giambi is that guy.

    Pitching:

    Rotation:
    1) Martinez - one of the best
    2) D Lowe - solid
    3) Wakefield - erratic, up and down
    4) Fossum - young with talent but hasn't fulfilled it yet
    5) Burkett - old and washed-up

    Bullpen:
    1) Fox - great but injury-prone
    2) Mendoza - solid and my pick to be the regular closer
    3) Embree - great LH with gas
    4) Timlin - old guy who may not have much left
    5) Howry - was something until he hurt his arm
    6) Castillo? or ?

    So, maybe the statement that using a "closer by committee is insane" was a little over-the-top, but I have my doubts that it is going to work. I guess I am just a guy who does things by the book when it comes to baseball.

    However, I am more concerned about the rotation. I mean you can count on it every year; Timmy is going to suck and then he is going to look great. Burkett is about done and Fossum has yet to turn the corner.

    If we could have just gotten Vazquez or Colon or Contreras and Floyd stayed with us, then I would say yes that the Sox could dethrone the Yankees in the AL East, but looking at what they did, there is no way that I could say that.
     
  11. Heretic

    Heretic Member

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    All of them, baseball sucks.
     
  12. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Manny--

    I agree with many of your points, but I wouldn't have given up Fossum in a Colon trade either. There is speculation that Colon may be having arm trouble. Because of that there's NO WAY I'd give up a young pitching talent for him.

    I saw Fossum pitch in college, where he dominated. Give him time...he will become a serviceable 2 or 3 starter.
     
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    I played 3rd base on Fossum's baseball team for 6 years in high school/jr high in Waco. He's a great friend of mine still.
     
  14. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Tell him I said thanks for all the thrills he provided at Olsen Field.
     
  15. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Ref,

    I forgot that Fossum played at A&M (why in the hell do Horn fans call A&M - "ATM"?), so I should have asked the Aggie alumni here if he is really that good.

    I wish he could gain some weight and get some muscle. The times I have seen him pitch, he looked very undernourished.
     
  16. Smokey

    Smokey Member

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  17. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Oh...hehe...makes sense.

    Thanks
     
  18. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Most people outside of Texas call us TAMU.
     

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