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Athiests: Why not agnostic?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SexyButIgnorant, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    That is your choice but I have to tell you it will not get you into heaven.

    As for the list of prophecies, I found a website that list 80 of them that have been fulfilled or could only be fulfilled in this time with the technology we have now.

    Prophecies
     
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  2. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    So, the first prophecy listed was really that a temple would not last forever?

    YOU DON'T SAY?
     
  3. txtony

    txtony Member

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    I feel horrible each time I hear that.

    Not due to fear of going to hell (don't believe in the Christian's Hell).

    God creates everything.

    God find out human can not never sin.

    God send Jesus to die so that human's sin can be forgiven and those that accept Jesus can go to Heaven. Those that don't, I assume would go to Hell or some place in between (what a relief).

    God give Human free will to choose.

    God also put massive number of Human in situation that although they have free will, they have ZERO chance to know Jesus.

    seems pretty cruel
     
  4. Beck

    Beck Contributing Member

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    so, cm750, are you saying that humans can "earn" eternal life by their own confession and acceptance of Jesus?

    Scripture is very clear that this is not accurate. Christian scripture is a about God freely giving grace, to those who do not deserve it. It can not be earned, it is given. There is no formula for "earning" grace.
     
  5. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    Way to go, click the link and read the very first part and skip the rest then make a stupid comment. Why don't you try reading the entire list instead of making judgements on the first item.
     
  6. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    Please quote me these "scriptures" you talk about?
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Which of these fulfill the 3 criteria I mentioned? After skimming through, they all seem pretty vague. The Bible is a large book. I imagine it would not be difficult for someone to cherry-pick many vaguely-specified prophecies with scope for wide interpretation and pick historical events in the subsequent 2,000 year history that somehow corresponds to it.

    As you hold that these prophecies hold great significance as evidence for your belief system, have you looked at the counter-arguments? For example:

    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2007/09/100-challenge.html

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Failed_biblical_prophecies
     
  8. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    LOL. You want the Bible to fit your criteria???:confused: You can either accept it or deny it but most Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled save a few that will happen at the Rapture and the Tribulation. I originally gave a you a link to several books on the subject that say so much more than I could ever dream of saying on a message board. You wanted specific example meeting certain criteria, so I give you list of 80 prophecies which you just refer to as vague. You have obviously already mad up your mind which is your prerogative however I challenge to read a few of the books in my original link.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    I think you are confused. Treeman is arguing that it is a matter of faith that you think the sun will rise. So you disagree with him or agree with him?
     
  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member

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    What is the evidence of a deity's existence?

    I am not trying to convince anyone that deities don't exist. I honestly don't care what you believe! You are trying to convince me that deities do exist and to say the don't is extremist. Let's be clear here!
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    One of the criteria was that the prophecy not be vague. I think that's pretty reasonable! :)

    I'm simply requesting that you point out 1 prophecy from the list of 80 you provided that meets the 3 criteria I had. If this is difficult for you, I'm sorry. I don't have time to go out and read several books to find a resolution to this simple request. If the Bible is chalk full of these fulfilled prophecies, and you are familiar with many of them, it should be easy enough for you to produce at least one that's truly convincing. You pick the one, I will look at it in detail, and if I find it compelling I'll be sure to let you know.
     
  12. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    Seriously, I want you to quote the scripture that you are talking about. I challenge you to this. ;)

    Are you saved? Do you truly understand what it takes to be saved? Have you been "washed in the blood of the lamb"?

    Note: be extremely careful about taking scripture out of context.
     
  13. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    You have already made up your mind so I will not attempt to change it anymore. If you truly want to learn more about Bible prophecy, you will quit challenging armatures like me and purchase books written by people who have PhD's on the subject.

    Seriously, I respect your right to disagree with me. God gave us all free will. You do have a choice.

    All I will say from here on out is peace my man. I wish you the best and will pray someday you see the "LIGHT".:grin:
     
  14. Beck

    Beck Contributing Member

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    For starters, an essential theme of Paul's letter to the Romans is that Jesus came to free us from the law, meaning freedom from rituals and actions which people felt would grant them their salvation and freedom from sin. Grace is given only through Christ Jesus, and is not earned.

    Romans explains how no man on earth can set one free (pardon sin) and that only Christ Jesus can.

    Titus 3:5 states: "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy."

    Ephesians 1:7 says "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace"

    It is not faith that saves. It is Christ who saves. Christians are called to have faith in Christ that he will save.

    If your claim is that your faith saves you, then you are saying the sacrifice of Christ is not sufficient.
     
  15. Rocket Guy

    Rocket Guy Member

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    Prove its not eternal
     
  16. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Well, I am skeptical of any alleged fulfilled prophecy or other claims of miracles, but I wouldn't say my mind is already made up. Just needs a nudge. :) Without an initial compelling reason to believe in actual prophets, I can't devote a great deal of my time into learning more about it. I was just hoping you could give me a little something that would raise my eyebrows, and make me think, "Wow, that's pretty interesting. I need to learn more about this."

    Surely you could appreciate my position. If someone from the Far East claimed that their ancient books was filled with prophecies, would you not also be just a little skeptical? What criteria would you use to evaluate the validity of their prophecies? Or would you just not bother, and change the subject to Rockets basketball? :)
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Are you saying that faith is not necessary for being "saved", or are you saying that faith is necessary but not sufficient for being saved?
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I don't fully agree with either of you.
     
  19. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    I have absolutely no problem with these scriptures. They are not taken out of context.

    No arguments here


    It is your faith in Jesus Jesus and his sacrifice that saves you.


    ???????????????:confused: How did anything I said differ from what you are saying. We are talking apples and apples here. You are 100% correct, it is faith in Jesus Christ that saves us. I did not say anything contrary to what you said.

    I assume you are a Christian and place your faith in Jesus? If so I salute you and will see you in Heaven my friend.
     
  20. cml750

    cml750 Contributing Member

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    I can appreciate your position and that is why I would like you to read from experts. I personally recommend "The Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey as it is a terrific book but it was written in the late 60's and many prophecies have been fulfilled since then however you would probably call them "vague" if I quoted them.

    I can't begin to tell you how much Jesus has changed my life. I would truly like you to experience it too. All I can say is peace my man. If you truly want to learn about God and Jesus then I suggest you find a good church, read the Bible, and some books on Biblical prophecy.
     

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