At what point does personal responsibility turn into mental incapability?

I think severe depression leads to alcoholism, which deepens the depression, causing a sad cycle that is extremely hard to break. So, in my opinion, it does have to do with a chemical imbalance, but it is strengthened by surrounding circumstances.

Some quotes on Eddie:

"Eddie is free now," said former Rockets guard and NBA coach John Lucas, who worked with Griffin in Lucas' Houston-based rehabilitation program. "Eddie was just a special basketball talent. He was doing well for periods. He would go up and down mentally and spiritually. But Eddie was a good person."

"All the potential, all the dreams his family had for him for what his career would and could be, to see it end like this is just tragic," Rockets director of media relations Nelson Luis said. "He was a very quiet, introverted kid. But you could tell there was a current of trouble underneath the surface with him. It's a shame. He was trying. After he left us, he was trying to get his life together. It's a tragedy."

"Eddie was like a man-child," said Rusty Hardin, Griffin's attorney. "He was a wonderful, gentle soul, but he was an alcoholic. Alcohol always got in the way. The one thing the Rockets didn't know and none of us knew was the extent of the problem. It's really tragic. "What people don't know is Eddie didn't go out partying, he didn't go wild or was a jerk. He was secretly drinking. He would have been the savior power forward the Rockets needed if not for (alcohol). When alcohol wasn't involved, he was one wonderful, gentle giant."

Having several alcoholics in my family, it's very hard for me not to see a little of Eddie's situation in each of them. It's hard for me to think I could just shake them and say "Look at yourselves! Your ruining both your life and the lives of your family!" I couldn't say that, because I don't know. Traumatic childhoods, terrible money situations and severe depression led them to alcohol. I've never experienced any of those, so who am I to judge? I do think these people deserve compassion, just like everyone else.

 

I don't think you can lump all alcoholics into one category or the other. It's not black and white. Some have serious mental problems. Some are just plain idiots.

 

Well, alcoholism runs in my family. I honest to God do believe you can be born and be susceptible to alcoholism. And if that's the case, one drink will trigger it. My mom can't take a drink (clean for 25 years) because it will send her on a spiral. I don't even have depression or a painful past, but when I drink I find myself in that "just one more" mentality...many times until I'm completely wasted. I don't know where it comes from, and the next morning I always tell myself I'll never do it again, but then a week or two later it happens. So combine that tendency with severe depression, and it would be very, very, hard to get out of that cycle. Not all alcoholics have the problem run in their family, but many do...and surprisingly, it is many times more nature than nurture, IMO.

 

Great post, finals....

Alcoholism mainly, in my opinion, is usually brought about by other choices or circumstances that a person is subjected to. Usually it has to do with peer pressure, in teens, depression in others, or a combination of both. It doesn't necessarily start and end with those two, but I think those are two of the main "causes" if you will. Same thing has to do with other addictions. But, I will say, it's not all black and white.

I don't believe that you can be born an alcoholic or anything like that. You're a victim of your circumstances, and usually, by time you realize you're addicted, it's too late. I have never been addicted to anything, but I'm just speaking from seeing family members go through it.

My grandfather died when I was about 10. One of my uncles was in his Senior year of high school. Now, my grandpa was a great man. He was a stern, yet loving, kind of cowboy-type of guy. When he passed, my uncle took it extremely hard. Having the peer pressure around, he began drinking and smoking pot just about every day of the week. He got fired from a Kroger's in high school because he went to work drunk, then passed out in the parking lot, woke up, and started peeing right in the parking lot in front of customers. One night, some friends brought him home, drunk, at like 2 in the morning... They let him out of the car and left. Never saw if he made it to the door or anything. When m grandma woke up in the morning, he was passed out in the middle of her driveway.

At that point, we kind of had an intervention. Some of the things his nieces and nephews said to him (including me), kind of snapped things straight for him. We were all about 8 to 12 years younger than him, and had generally looked up to him. He realized that. It shocked him into joining the Army. He went to Iraq for 2 years, and now, he's married has a great family and a great job and his head is screwed on right. I couldn't be more proud of him.

In my opinion, it's all about having that network behind you. If you're depressed, and have no loved-ones to set you straight, there is probably little that can be done for you. The downward spiral continues until somehow , some way, you're snapped out of it. Unfortunately, for Eddie Griffin (whom I thought would be a great player in the league, and so I named my moniker after him), he spiraled down and never got out of that tailspin.

Another one of my uncles drank heavily in high school, also. He's older than my other uncle, and when he was growing up, the age was 18. Long story short, his drinking got so bad that he was drinking and driving quite often. One night, he woke up, handcuffed to a hospital bed. He had been drinking and driving and hit a lady, and nearly killed her. Somehow, he got off with probation, even though the lady had a spine fracture and had a very long recovery. Today, he doesn't drink, but in my opinion, he still has not broken out of his funk.

My dad, upon seeing his brother do this, quit drinking, and does not drink anymore. He did up until his brother's accident. Now, he gets kind of upset (out of worry) when he sees my brother (24) partying and drinking. He absolutely urges him not to.

While this is a normal thing to do (partying...not in excess, though), my dad has been, to a sense, classically conditioned. I think personalities are genetic, and to a large point, can lead to someone being addicted. My dad has this sort of personality, and so do I, in my opinion. I think something that he and I have done, that people do not often do, though, is recognize that fact. When you recognize that, you can almost prevent yourself from becoming addicted to something, especially when you use a little self-control.

 

this is a good starting place if you want information. Back to school work but I will be back to comment later. Its very hard to understand someone not being to regulate their own behavior, this is why so many people struggle with the concept.

 

This statement right here, I think defines addiction. Addiction is when something goes from being a thought-out choice to being something that is a consequence of clouded choices.

 

Clouded circumstances.


I think that we need to stop looking for quick fixes on things. As a society, all anyone cares about anymore is efficiency. It's the same reason why you see these fad diets that have the commercials with people saying things like, "I lost 80 pounds in two weeks!!"

People, in my opinion, just don't have a valuable concept of time anymore. If it's not quick, then it doesn't work. Therefore, you get some people who are so enveloped in something, that if it's not going to change in a day, they're not willing to put in the work or determination to put an end to it.


With that said, I believe this thread will probably go to the D & D. Not that it should be in one forum or the other, but I think it has the potential to spell some hot debate.

 

I don't think an addiction should be used as an excuse for one's actions. I believe that the human will and spirit is strong enough to overcome one's addictions, even if it needs some positive reinforcement to begin onto the right path.

I know that overcoming an addiction is tough work and can be mentally draining, but that difficulty shouldn't be an excuse for not making positive changes in your life.

 

I agree with this statement.

 

Both.

Alcholics are often born with a pre-dispostion to alcholism. They are at higher risk than the "average" person.

But it still takes drinking and bad decisions to get to full blown alcoholism.

 

Yeah exactly. This is different from addiction, but I know I have a predisposition to heart disease in my family. It isn't my fault if I have a heart attack, but I should make wise decisions to stay healthy.

 

I totally agree. I was reading something recently about a treatment for alchoholics using a drug that altered brain chemistry to prevent the pleasure centers of the brain from being activated by alcohal. People undertaking this treatment could still drink but they found that they got nothing out of it. Something like that tells me that there is very likely a biological component to alcohalism that may be genetic and/or developmental.

The problem though is that as we learn more about genetics is that genes often are not destiny and there are many other factors that could lead to a trait being active or not. As Mr. Clutch noted the most you can say is there a tendancy.

I think like most things you have to take alcoholics on a case by case basis and what causes one person to drink might have no affect on another person.

 

It's difficult for me to relate to an addict.

The only thing I've been addicted to is caffeine, and I kicked it. But caffeine is nothing compared to alcohol or some hard drugs, like meth or cocaine.

So, again.. I really find it difficult to be understanding of an addict.
 

 

Seeing this thread in the Hangout I assumed it would turn into a thread full of alcoholic jokes. Before reading I instantly clicked the bottom option of "I am an alcoholic...etc." again assuming most people would select this option jokingly.

EPIC FAIL on my part as there has only been 1 single vote for that option and it seems to be mine. LOL

In truth I would pick the first option. Alcoholics create themselves.

 

How is this different from the fat people threads?

You have people who are predisposed to be fat. Skinny people can't relate and say it's because they don't have self discipline.

Either way, I think it's a cop out to blame genetics. As long as you have the mental capacity of an adult, anything you do is personal responsibility.