We won again today. Roy OSwalt, my man had a complete game. ASTROS ARE AWESOME!!!!! WE'RE GONNA WIN THE WORLD SERIES FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!
They beat the reds, thats not something great. But I dont care, any win vs any team is a plus win for houston since we got the cubs on our ass. Son of a b**** cubs got lucky with that game winning homer they had today. I think Houston if they make playoffs, has a very good chance to go to the world series. Astros have a series with the Brewers in Mil, and the Cubs start tomorrow in Atlanta with Braves. I think Houston should get a good add to the lead if all goes good. Milcki is pitching tomorrow, hes the worst **** they have.
Hard to say...when you look at Pujols and Oswalt, it is VERY close. Both guys are way above most the other rookies. But I would have to say, and I am probably showing my bias here, that if both rookie continues to perform as he is <i>right now</i>, give the award to Roy, because he is pitching in a hitters park, and still dominating with ease.
I think Pujols is far and away the best rookie. As much as I would love for Oswalt to win, Pujols has the upper hand.
Tell you what, Pujols can have the Rookie of the year award, we will let Ohswalt win a world series ring. Sounds like a fair deal. DaDakota
That's simply not true. Pujols ranks 8th in the NL in OPS at 1.033. And his defense isn't exactly terrific; many believe his future is in the OF. Oswalt is just short of qualifying in innings pitched, and ranks 4th among starters, traling GREG MADDUX by .02 runs. (ERA 2.82). If Oswalt had been pitching all year, he'd be a Cy Young candidate. Right now, he's at least the true Rookie of the Year. Pujols isn't even close, except in terms of opportunities. Add on to that the fact that a great pitcher is much harder to find than a talented hitter... and well, Oswalt should smear Pujols.
Haven - Pujols does have the upper hand simply because he has put up good numbers for the entire season. His OPS is outstanding even though it is 8th. He is also 6th in average, 8th in slugging and 10th in on-base. If Oswalt hadn't emerged, Pujols would win unanimously. It is amazing that Oswalt is even being considered. Oswalt has 120 innings this year. He needs 162 to qualify for the ERA title. He has 5-6 starts left. It will be extremely difficult for him to reach 162 with 5 starts and he'll need to average 7 innings if he gets 6 starts. 7 Innings is doable but he can't afford to have ANY poor starts. Oswalt could win the award if he finishes 16-2 or better AND the Astros win the division AND Roy gets more national attention in the next couple of weeks. Do they still have the rookie pitcher of the year award? Roy would win easily in the NL and Sabbathia would take it in the AL.
Oswalt has pitched in 24 games and started 16. In that time span, he's amassed 120.2 innings. I'd say it's very possible for him to qualify in 6 starts. I'd assume he'll get all 6, as the Astros are in a pennant race, and Roy's their best player. I suppose he might end up with only 5 if the Astros begin to pull away. In any event, the stats that you present actually lessen Pujols a little. In better statistical formulas, OBP is given slightly more weight over slugging, in which Pujols performance has been poorer. Oswalt: 1. Has played better than Pujols over period of time long enough to be statistically significant. 2. Has probably been the difference between playoffs and mediocrity for Houston. 3. Assuming he's as good as his statistics indicate, is one of the top 5 pitchers in the NL. Elite pitchers are far rarer than elite hitters. If he continues on his current trajectory, he might very well end up as #2 or #3 in ERA. I know that the ROY is awarded based on performance, rather than talent, but Oswalt has had a truly magnificent rookie year... while it seems that someone of Pujols caliber comes out most years. Don't get me wrong. I think Pujols will probably win the award. People don't like voting for a guy who spent time in the minors... and people are also overly impressed by homers. But I think that's selling Oswalt short, since he's significantly outplayed the guy.
Why not let them be co-rookies of the year? I thought that has happened before. DaDakota - I like your idea as well!!!
Pujols was rated the best defensive third baseman and the best infield arm by Baseball America last year in AA. I guess he can play defense according to Baseball America. Pujols - .332, 38 dbls, 31 hr, 102 rbi, 91 runs in 132 games played. These are the stats of the most recent ROY hitters, notice that Pujols has played 20 games less than some yet his stats are better than just about all. 2000:Furcal - .295, 20 dbls, 4 hr, 87 r, 40 steals in 131 games 1999:Beltran - .293, 27 dbls, 22 hr, 108 rbi, 112 runs in 156 games 1998: Grieve - .288, 41 dbls, 18 hr, 89 r, 94 rbi in 155 games 1997: Rolen - .283, 35 dbls, 21 hr, 93 r, 92 rbi in 156 games 1997: Garciaparra - .306, 44 dbls, 30 hr, 122 r, 98 rbi in 153 games 1996: Jeter - .314, 25 dbls, 10 hr, 104 r, 78 rbi in 157 games 1996: Hollandsworth - .291, 26 dbls, 12 hr, 64 r, 59 rbi in 149 games OPS comparisons for the last 5 years and some other notable ROY's Pujols - 1.020 Furcal - .774 Beltran - .791 Grieve - .844 Rolen - .846 Garciaparra - 876 Jeter - .800 Hollandsworth - .785 Mondesi - .849 Piazza - .931 Bagwell - .812 McGwire - .988 Canseco - .875 Ripken Jr - .782 It is quite clear that someone of Pujols caliber quite rarely comes out. The only ROY who even comes close to Pujols' OPS numbers is McGwire who set the rookie home run record in '87 and is now one of the most feared sluggers in baseball history. On the other hand, pitchers seem to rarely win ROY awards so it's hard to compare Oswalt to past winners. 2001 - Oswalt - 2.83 era, 12 wins, 2 losses, 120 k's in 120 innings 2000 - Sasaki - 3.16 era, 2 wins, 5 losses, 37 saves 1999 - Sullivan - 2.41 era, 12 wins, 7 losses, 19 saves 1998 - Wood - 3.40 era, 13 wins, 6 losses, 233k's in 166 innings 1995 - Nomo - 2.54 era, 13 wins, 6 losses, 236k's in 191 innings 1984 - Gooden - 2.60 era, 17 wins, 9 losses, 276 k's in 218 innings Not much you can deduce here other than the past starters who've won had better strikeout ratios and were hyped much more. Wood, Nomo. and Gooden all played in big media markets while Roy is in Houston. Oswalt strikeout ratio also isn't as good as those three pitchers.
Well, according to the Baseball Prospects "He's advertised as a third baseman, but has been error-prone in his time there and played more at other positions than at the hot corner." Many of those ROY's also come before the juiced ball era. I think McGwire would have had a higher OPS had he been a rookie this year. Players like Lance Berkman who didn't have enough at-bats to be a contender, but too many to remain a rookie, also are not listed there. Gee... the first three guys you mentioned were all relievers. And being a reliever is substantially easier than being a starter. Those guys needed 1 or at most 2 good pitches to succeed. Oswalt starts. Kerry Woods rookie year was nowhere close to Oswalt's... his ERA was quite good, but he hardly put in the CY Young-type performance Oswalt has. 2.82 to 3.49 = not close. We're left with Hideo Nomo, who admittedly had a stunning year... yet he did play in the greatest pitching park in baseball. GOODEN's rookie year is legendary. Absolutely amazing. And both of those guys played before hitting was quite as... off-the-charts as it is now. Oswalt plays in a hitters park in an era of the hitter. Yet his ERA is comparable to Greg Maddux. Better (even when you adjust for the DH) than Roger Clemens'. Both players have been outstanding, obviously. Yet during Oswalt's tenure in the majors, I believe he's outperformed Pujols. It really comes down to a question of how much you reward Pujols for his greater playing time.
Interestingly enough, both Larry Dierker and Matt Galante think Pujols should get the nod as an everyday player: dierker gives nod to position players At the end of the article: "I think Pujols is probably rookie of the year," Dierker said. "In my mind, if you're going to give away the MVP each year (and) you can only consider a pitcher if you're going to have a Pedro Martinez-type year, something that was just over-the-top better than everybody else and at the same time there's no standout offensive player. I think if a position player plays every day he ought to get the nod over a pitcher." Even Galante had to agree with that. "If it wasn't for Pujols it would be a shoo-in for Oswalt," Galante said. "It's hard to go for a pitcher when there's a player out there hitting .330 with 30-35 homers and 100 rbi."
Originally posted by haven Well, according to the Baseball Prospects "He's advertised as a third baseman, but has been error-prone in his time there and played more at other positions than at the hot corner." Baseball America is one of the most respected sources for info there is, what the heck is Baseball Prospects? I'll stick with Baseball America when it comes to rating minor leaguers. Many of those ROY's also come before the juiced ball era. I think McGwire would have had a higher OPS had he been a rookie this year. Players like Lance Berkman who didn't have enough at-bats to be a contender, but too many to remain a rookie, also are not listed there. You said someone of Pujols caliber seems to come out every year and that is not true at all. I've clearly demonstrated that. Now you're trying to diminish his accomplishments by using McGwire who had one of the best rookie seasons in baseball history. The fact that you are even trying to compare Pujols to Mark McGwire is clearly a statement that says Pujols is an incredibly special player and not at all of a caliber that "seems to come out every year". Your juiced ball argument blows because for the last 5 years no rookie hitter has been on par with Pujols. Not one, none, zero. Didn't you read the stats I posted? Berkman's OPS as a rookie was .708 and as a second year player at Enron was .949. Still far away from Pujols 1.020 who does not play at Enron. Gee... the first three guys you mentioned were all relievers. And being a reliever is substantially easier than being a starter. Those guys needed 1 or at most 2 good pitches to succeed. Oswalt starts. This is a comparison of ROY winners. Relievers win ROY awards so file your complaint with Bud Selig. Kerry Woods rookie year was nowhere close to Oswalt's... his ERA was quite good, but he hardly put in the CY Young-type performance Oswalt has. 2.82 to 3.49 = not close. Kerry Wood also pitched perhaps the greatest game in the history of baseball against the Astros that year, one of the best hitting teams in the league. Oh by the way, he pitched that game in the juiced ball era. How many 1 hit/ 19 k games have you ever seen? One moment, along with good numbers can propel anyone to an award. Oswalt is having a phenomenal year, but you don't need to try to tear down Pujols with bogus claims to make Oswalt look better. If Oswalt played in New York, LA, or Chicago, as Gooden, Nomo, and Wood did, he may very well win ROY. As it stands now though, he's probably behind Pujols.
