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Astros: When do you give up on the season & start rebuilding?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Hottoddie, Jun 5, 2005.

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Clemens: Do you trade him or keep him?

  1. Trade him

    21 vote(s)
    61.8%
  2. Keep him

    13 vote(s)
    38.2%
  1. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    In all likely hood, this will probably be Roger's last year. He came here for a greatly reduced salary to try & help bring a World Series title to Houston & didn't miss it by much last year. The Astros organization stepped up & took a chance by acquiring a young stud in the last year of his contract that the team rallied around. Unfortunately, just like with Randy Johnson, we were unable to resign him.

    This year has, thus far, turned out to be quite a bit different. Roger is making a salary more in line with a player of his caliber (albeit, on the low end) & the team has lost 3 of the main offensive weapons they had last year, & the 4th is still struggling to get up to speed. With a third of the season gone, the Astros are just 3½ games ahead of Kansas City for the worst record in all of baseball & are 9 games behind the current wild card teams. They're not out of the race just yet, but it's fast approaching.

    Ensberg has stepped up his game this year, but he'll be 30 years old in a couple of months. He's still got a few good years left in him. One area of concern for me is his hit to strikeout ratio. He's got 50 hits & 46 strike outs in 174 at bats. He's striking out 26% of the time. Maybe, I'm just being picky.

    Taveras looks real promising & I believe, gives us our leadoff hitter & center fielder for many years to come.

    Lane, well........, I'm not real impressed thus far. Unless he steps it up by the end of the season, I'm going to have to say strike one for Purpura.

    Biggio has done well, but he's keeping Burke from playing his natural position. Wasn't Burke the player that several teams were trying to pry away from the Astros? There must be something special about this kid, but how will we ever know it, if he doesn't get any significant game time? Here's an idea, if Drayton's loyalty to Biggio is such that he's given specific orders to play him, then move him back to the outfield & sit Lane down.

    Everett seems to be coming back around & even has a little pop in his bat. Could we be seeing the beginning of a new Dickie Thon emerging? We can only hope so.

    Berkman should continue to come back to his old form & that will help.

    With the trade deadline getting closer & the Clemens trade rumors running rampant, when do you admit that the season's a wash & start building for the future? Or, do you once again gut your farm system for another stud that could leave you at the end of the season? With Clemens making a salary that's more in line with his value, do we owe it to him to acquire another stud? It'd be nice, but I don't think so.

    It's been reported in the newspapers that Clemens is willing to accept a trade to the Yankees, Rangers, & possibly Boston. But, only if it helps the Astros. Take these reports for what they're worth to you. However, if they're true, the Astros have a chance to get some young talent that could make a significant contribution in the next year or two.

    Lidge has also been mentioned as a player that could bring us some nice prospects.

    Bagwell (37), Biggio (39), Ensberg (30 in 2 months), Ausmus (36), Lamb (30 in 2 months), Clemens (43 in 2 months), & Pettitte (33) are all starters on this team & are getting up there in age, by professional sports standards. Clemens is the only one that seems to be getting better with each passing year, & he's openly admitted that each new season takes a toll on him. We've got some promising prospects, but maybe it's time to make some moves to replinish our farm system & rebuild our team.

    But, hey, that's just my opinion. What's your's?
     
  2. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Pretty good overall analysis thus far...

    As for the Burke/Biggio thing, this past week has shown what the club is planning to do... play Burke in the OF full time. They know that Lane is struggling, and to have Todd Self up here playing everyday w/out giving Burke that opportunity was a real slight to Chris. He's said that he will be 100% devoted to playing the OF if that's the only way he's going to get to play. He went 2-4 with 2 doubles yesterday... he could be the ideal #2 hitter for this team for years to come (a Mark Lorreta clone). I'm not ready to give up on him just yet (but, Biggio will be playing 2B for as long as he wants to... he's earned that).

    As far as the rest of the team, the guys safe for next year are : Pitchers - Oswalt, Backe, Pettite... and then Lidge.
    Batters - Berkman, Ensberg, Everett, Burke, Quintero (our new catcher), Taveras.

    The rest of the guys are up in the air. I think Ausmus has one more year, but as a severe backup. I would like to think he's being groomed for a managing position (possibly w/ this team, post-Garner).

    Biggio has shown that he can be effective at this age... although lately, he's struggled. A lot of what he does next year will hinge on how he performs in the late months of this season... August/September (historically horrible months for him, as his body wears down).

    If Clemens asks for a trade, he will get it. But, I don't see that happening... nor do I see the club dealing w/ the Rangers on any possible terms (as Drayton said).

    The upper level of the farm is barren right now... but come next year, I don't think we'll be in that bad of a shape simply because of the talent we have at A and AA right now. Fernando Nieve has a great arm, and is putting up Oswalt-like numbers at AA. Hunter Pence should be seeing AA before this year is over. And Troy Patton... the great hope for the future... is only 19 years old, and will be building arm strength continually for a shot at this club within the next 3 years.
     
  3. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    You're talking about pitchers, but what about position players? With the exceptions of Hector Gimenez(C), Josh Anderson(OF), & Carlos Rodriguez(OF), I don't see anyone that's showing much at the plate in AA or AAA. And, they're not exactly tearing it up. Are there position players that I'm over looking?
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Luke Scott is still an option. His power numbers are still looking good.

    I already mentioned Pence... he has to be the organizations best position-player prospect at this point. He should see high A or AA before the year is done.
     
  5. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Pence is tearing that league apart. He's leading in homers with 20- second place has 13. That's a HUGE disparity. 2nd in RBIs, 5th in BA. 1st in slugging by 50 points also. In the same league, Patton is 1st in ERA and 2nd in Ks (1 behind the leader).

    We've got some stud pitching prospects on the way. In addition to Patton, his teammate, Jimmy Barthmeier isn't anything to sneeze at either. 5-1 with 2.16 ERA, and a K per inning. He's still 21. Barthmeier has only given up 2 HR and Patton's given up 1. Nieve's been mentioned, and Jason Hirsh has a ton of potential as well in AA.

    Einertson can't be dismissed yet even though he's having a bad year. Jordan Parraz still has some potential as well.
     
  6. Hottoddie

    Hottoddie Member

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    I guess I'm going to have to keep an eye on Pence now.

    It's nice to know that we have some promising young prospects coming up, but when would you anticipate them being ready to make an impact at the major league level?

    Now, back to my original thought, could trading Clemens, & possibly Lidge, bring us some players that are ready now & would you do it?

    By the way, what would be considered an average to above average hit to strike out ratio for both power hitters & non power hitters?
     

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