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Asik for Millsap is a Pipedream

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by oakdogg, May 7, 2014.

  1. zipcrash

    zipcrash Member

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    i dont know the exact stats, but morey has mentioned them. rockets were a top 10 defense with asik on the court and around 25~ when he wasn't. this was the 12-13 year. i dont know the stats for this year, but there was a noticeable difference when howard was off the court and asik was injured. he does A LOT on defense.
     
  2. gmoney411

    gmoney411 Member

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    What stats are you looking for? Asik averaging 5 more rebounds per game and being a better all around defensive player is a big deal. Koufus is a nice rotation player but even when he was starting the nuggets were only giving him 22 minutes a game. Asik is a legit starting center in the league and probably a top 5 defensive center.
     
  3. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    Market value requires demand, Millsap has very little demand at all, that's why his contract was so crappy....
     
  4. mesta

    mesta Member

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    Hawks won't say no to Asik+Parsons+Tjones
    Hawks has holes in PF rotation, Pero antic was a disaster in the playoff
    Demarre Carrol is a good defender at 3 but he is inconsistent offensively
     
  5. mesta

    mesta Member

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    sounds like howard before hakeem trained him this season
     
  6. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Member

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    Good post. I think both those guys are interesting in that there are mitigants to your comparison. For Bosh, he's the third wheel. Switch Bosh with Millsap and I think Bish looks like the better player. Interestingly, though, Miami doesn't skip a beat. With Rondo... I value his perimeter defense and ability to run a team over all else.

    Still with that said the point remains Millsap is criminally underrated.

    This board wonders why the Spurs are so consistently good. No, Millsap isn't a Duncan or Parker in their primes, but is he a Manu third wheel type guy? Absolutely. And he's a guy whose play translates to winning more than someone like say a Parsons.

    The Rockets need more Millsaps.

    I'd love an offseason where somehow Rondo and Millsap are acquired.

    That said, that also speaks to my earlier post in this thread. To me, Millsap is almost as valuable as Horford if I'm Atlanta. Then when I factor in Horfords injury history, his longer more expensive contract, his so so performance in playoffs... If Horford could really get you a good deal, if I'm Atlanta I trade him instead.
     
  7. zipcrash

    zipcrash Member

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    the big thing for me is if the value is equal. id love millsap...for the right price.
     
  8. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    That logic is waaaay too simple
     
  9. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    I just mentioned this in another post but why are we so focused on Milsap? His value is at an all time high, especially within the Atlanta organization and fan base who saw their team go to Game 7 without Horford and looking very strong. Horford is the one we need to go after. What Atlanta is missing is a true Center while we are missing a true Power Forward. Asik + Filler + Picks for Horford (which completes what I call Project H3 or in the great world of marketing, simply H3 would be a great campaign for Houston.

    Both sides get what they need to be true contenders in their conference. Houston becomes a legitimate 2-way team with Howard and Horford completely locking down the paint and having the luxury of playing their man 1 on 1 while Horford preventing double-teams on Howard due to his mid-range game.

    Rockets are now stacked in the starting line-up and having instantly added depth to the bench before even using the Full MLE available to them.

    P.G. - Beverley / Canaan? (I assume Lin gets traded as a salary dump)
    S.G. - Harden / Daniels
    S.F. - Parsons / MLE money
    P.F. - Horford / Jones
    ..C. - Howard / Motiejunas (partial MLE)

    To me, Horford to Houston is a no brainer.

    Morey, find a way.
     
  10. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    You might be able to do something like Asik and Jones for Horford. Maybe somehow add in Lin as well but Asik and filler is not worth Horford.

    If I'm Morey I'm immediately gauging Atlanta's interest in Asik as a backup to the Melo, Dirk, Bosh plan.

    Honestly adding Lowry and Horford and subtracting Asik, Lin, Jones and filler would be a helluva offseason.

    Lot's of possibilities.
     
  11. Rokman

    Rokman Member

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    I don't know how they would be able to pull off both but that would be huge. This team would probably be instant favorites for the championship.

    PG - Lowry
    SG - Harden
    SF - Parsons
    PF - Horford
    . C - Howard

    Yep, that would do it.
     
  12. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    There would be teams lining up all over the place for Horford
     
  13. ryandoc

    ryandoc Member

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    Before we acquired him, I thought Harden would be a pipe dream too...
    Same goes for Howard... just sayin.
     
  14. rocketsballin

    rocketsballin Member

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    i didnt think harden wa sa pipe dream but howard was definitely one. rockets never get any big free agents then they get dwight

    horford doesnt wanna play center and shouldnt after injuring that shoulder again. they need a real center. but i dont thijnk they'd trade milsap for asik straight up.
     
  15. Akkuron

    Akkuron Member

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    Disregard the fact he was the top scorer on a team that made the finals once.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I think we may be able to get Horford too. Price tag would be high, but worth it IMO. Asik + Lin + Parsons + DMo + our 2014 1st round pick + our protected 2016 first round pick + $3m cash for Horford + Teague. Gives them two solid starters in Asik and Parsons, a draft pick and tremendous cap flexibility in 2015 (over $35m cap space if I'm not mistaken). A line up of Asik, Millsap, Parsons, Carroll and Lin is really good on both sides of the floor (particularly defensive), plus you have a few first rounders, plus all that cap space coming up. Heck with this make-up, I feel like Lin could end up being a very successful starter. I think it's a nice situation for a team that doesn't look like it can go past the second round anyway during Millsap and Horford's prime. Of course I know very little about ATL's big picture so there are obviously things I don't know.

    I know Horford has been injury prone, but they don't seem to be chronic issues. It's an important distinction. If we have Howard, Horford and Harden I'm more than happy to go with Garcia at SF. He's not an amazing defender but will never let his man rest, super scrappy, and a decent 3pt shooter. A poor man's Battier. I like the energy he brings to the team. I've always liked the idea of surrounding stars with players who have no ego and produce through effort rather than talent.

    OTOH I am far from certain that giving up a lot of picks and Parsons and other young guys is worth getting a 3rd star one year sooner. We can realistically expect that this exact same team + a couple of vet minimum signings can go to the Western conference finals next season. This team, overall, essentially doubled the quantity of its playoff experience by playing in 6 playoff games this season. A significant leap in performance is likely even if we don't change anything. Think of just how much Jones, Bev, Lin, Daniels, Parsons must have learned winning 54 games and playing in 6 playoff games. How much D-Mo will have learned from being part of a supposed contender in the playoffs. Think of how much the team has learned to play around both Harden and Howard. Think of how much McHale will learn about coaching playoff basketball, monitoring fatigue, having a defensive assistant, seeing how the Spurs dismantle the Blazers offense, etc. All of these things are going to be huge for the Rockets. All we need is a top notch assistant coach for defense, and it looks like the team is on top of it. After all that we could pick up a big FA in 2015.

    Frankly, we're in a pretty awesome position despite our disappointing series. I'm still in shock from losing games 1 and 2 at home, but there is plenty to look forward to.
     
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  17. AirBud#10

    AirBud#10 Member

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    LOL, no it doesn't. Dwight lead a team to the finals as the leading scorer, Omer couldn't lead a D-league team in scoring.
     
  18. faraza84

    faraza84 Member

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    Horford is on contract for 3 years at 12 mil a season, and he's younger than milsap by a year so I could see them try to move milsap first because with the whole all star status and his raise I could see milsap commanding more than horford. Atl is cheap and prob won't want to pay him more than horford. Especially when they could keep Asik for 10-11 and horford at 12 mill. One of them will be gone for sure because of their redundancy and horford not being a center and not wanting to play a center. I believe he's attributed injuries because he was playing out of position.
     
  19. oakdogg

    oakdogg Member

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    Part of that can be explained by the fact that we had Greg Smith backing up Asik, and Greg Smith was not a defensive center.

    That tells me why you think Asik is good, but it doesn't really say why you think he is light years better than Koufos - because it doesn't evaluate Koufos any. I don't really have time to do an in depth statistical comparison, and I've already done a little of that. Here's one though - he had a better defensive rating manning the center spot than Marc Gasol (last year's DPOY) this year. A few reasons why he may get fewer defensive rebounds than Asik aside from that just being a great talent of Asik's - Koufos goes for more blocks (he gets significantly more blocks than Asik), and Koufos was next to much stronger rebounding power forwards (Randolph and Faried) than Asik. Why did Koufos only get 22 minutes a game as a starter at Denver? They had just signed Javale McGee (who is also a good center believe it or not) to a massive contract plus they had Mozgov who is now a starting center himself. There - that is my case that Koufos' market value would be somewhat indicative of Asik's.

    That said.....I started to think about it, and there are examples that point to the exact opposite of my evaluation of Asik's value:
    - Nerlands(?) Noel netting NO Jrue Holiday;
    - Greg Oden being selected ahead of Kevin Durant;
    - picking Hasheem Thabeet at #2;
    - picking Michael Olowakandi at #1.

    All of these centers were all defense & NO offense, yet they were obviously pretty highly valued by the league.

    So, what is my conclusion? I can't really tell what Asik's market value is (I do think Memphis got a STEAL for Koufos) now. I do still believe it is extremely unlikely that Asik could get Millsap straight up though.
     
  20. asianballa23

    asianballa23 Member

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    ATL will want parsons in the deal, so basically would you do a asik & parsons for millsap deal?
     

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