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[Article] Is Manu a flopper: Many opponents not fond of his dramatic falls

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by esse, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. esse

    esse Member

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    Just an interesting article in the S.A. paper today.
    ok, let the flaming begin!:D
    Go Finals, Go!
    [​IMG]
    Is Manu a flopper: Many opponents not fond of his dramatic falls

    Web Posted: 06/05/2005 12:00 AM CDT
    Johnny Ludden
    Express-News Staff Writer


    It started, not surprisingly, when Denver coach George Karl opened his mouth. Having watched Manu Ginobili � legs splayed, arms contorted, neck snapped back, his long, dark locks whipping everywhere � crash into the Nuggets one too many times, Karl encouraged his players to grow out their own tresses.

    Not only does Ginobili flop, Karl said, his flowing hair is also a convenient prop to draw fouls.

    Seattle's Ray Allen chimed in next. If Ginobili was going to fall down anyway, Allen said, the Sonics' big men might as well help him.

    The Phoenix Suns, Shawn Marion joked, were so impressed by Ginobili's alleged flopping during the Western Conference finals they planned to sign up for their own acting lessons.

    Ginobili has more than enough evidence to refute charges he has gone from All-Star to All-Fake: the bruised left quadriceps he has been playing with for two weeks (either his second or third of the season � the team has lost count); the groin strain he has carried with him since March; the bruised right quadriceps he suffered plowing into Houston's Yao Ming; a sore back from his too-many-to-remember falls; hip pointers (left and right); and, not the least of which, the black-and-blue nickname Brent Barry hung on him, El Contusion.

    "I'm 200 pounds and I'm slashing all the time, going against 300-pound guys," Ginobili said. "I'm telling you it's not easy to go finish, get hit and land on your feet."

    More often than not, Ginobili lands with a thud. Lowering his head and driving to the basket time and again, he treats his body as if it were a bumper car, pinballing off defenders until someone has to scrape him off the floor.

    "He just goes in there, takes a licking and keeps on ticking," said Sonics center Danny Fortson, who dished out one of the two flagrant fouls Ginobili has attracted during the playoffs.

    Ginobili's relentless efforts to take the ball to the rim � and the high-wire moves he uses to get it there � have earned him the respect of his teammates and an ever-growing legion of fans, Karl excluded. They also have rewarded him with 144 free throws in the playoffs. Only Amare Stoudemire and Tim Duncan have shot more.

    "He just frustrates teams because he's getting to the basket any time he wants," Tony Parker said. "He's just being aggressive and doing his thing."

    Among the things Ginobili does, some of his opponents claim, is flop. Stoudemire was the latest to complain. After Ginobili wrapped him up late in Game 4 of the conference finals, Stoudemire shook loose, in the process flinging Ginobili to his back. Both players received a technical.

    Stoudemire credited Ginobili with "a great acting job." Before the playoffs began, Ginobili rarely, if ever, heard similar complaints.

    "I don't like people that cry a lot and complain and we had some in the first rounds," Ginobili said. "But I'm not going to make that change my way of playing, the way I feel the game.

    "I'm just going to keep doing what I do."

    What Ginobili admits to occasionally doing is exaggerating contact that has already been made. Flopping, he said, is different.

    "Everybody tries to draw a call and make a ref see it," Ginobili said. "I can't even think of one person who doesn't do that."

    The NBA also made it easier for aggressive, athletic players to get to the foul line this season by restricting the amount of contact defenders can make on the perimeter.

    Despite the new emphasis, Ginobili grew frustrated early in the season over his inability to draw fouls. As the Spurs began to give him the ball more and more in pressure situations, he seemed to gain more respect from some referees.

    During the playoffs, Ginobili has averaged nine free-throw attempts per game, more than three above what he averaged during the regular season. His ability to get to the line, along with his 3-point shooting, has made him one of the league's most efficient players. He has averaged 21.8 points during the playoffs, despite attempting only 12.6 shots per game.

    "He's an All-Star," Rasho Nesterovic said, "and it's not flopping that got him there."

    Ginobili isn't the first player to be accused of flopping. During Seattle's first-round series, Sacramento coach Rick Adelman said Sonics forward Reggie Evans, "goes down when the air conditioning comes on." Los Angeles Lakers center Vlade Divac is the league's most famed flopper.

    Foreign players have a harder time avoiding the label. Phoenix coach Mike D'Antoni, who enjoyed a lengthy playing and coaching career in Italy, said the prevalence of soccer in Europe has led basketball players to adopt some of that sport's flopping tactics.

    The reputation, while mostly humorous, can have its drawbacks. Malik Rose, who is particularly adept at drawing charges, learned the skill from Divac when they played together in Charlotte. One veteran referee said he had no intention of rewarding Rose's "flopping" before a game last season. He made good on his vow. D'Antoni rates Ginobili's ability to draw fouls as "one of the best." "But," D'Antoni said, "he's also a great player."

    Asked if he agreed with Karl's theory that Ginobili's longer mane gets him more calls, D'Antoni laughed.

    "George," he said, "is just jealous because he lost his own hair a long time ago."
     
  2. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  3. Uprising

    Uprising Member

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    I hate Gino....

    He is a very good player, but he does flop way too much!
     
  4. slowmustang

    slowmustang Member

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    All I know is Manu's flopping will hurt him in the end. In the future, even if he IS fouled hard, they might not give him the call. Just like Vlade, the charge calls started to dwindle after getting away with so many.
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    between Parker and Many the Spurs are becoming the flop kings of the NBA.

    It's pretty annoying when they fall down after EVERY single layup or shot.
     
  6. francis 4 prez

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    they can't count past 1?
     
  7. IndianPlaya

    IndianPlaya Member

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    LOL :D
     
  8. RocksMillenium

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    I don't see the big deal myself. People just overreact to things. It's funny how Gino is a flopper now that he is stepping up to being a big time player. Nobody ever complained about it before.
     
  9. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    Actually, he never flopped or flopped as much as he did before. This year, he's doing it more or overacting it to the point where it's laughable. But like all things coming from them, the refs will act stupid and award him on his performance.

    I actually used to be a big Manu fan because he played the way that no other Euro players before him did--driving and slashing and defending. Now that he's considered a star, this flopping bit is just too much.
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    First you defend Matt Maloney, now you are defending flopping? Are you sure you're a Rockets fan?


    Flopping is bad for the game, period. No one said he wasn't a good player. Games shouldn't be turned on fouls that don't happen.
     
  11. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Is he serious?

    It's drawn more attention since Karl and the Suns have spoken out, but this has been out there for over a year.
     
  12. MLittle577

    MLittle577 Member

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    Probably got his driving and slashing from before his time in Italy. He learned to flop in Europe.:D
     
  13. Kim

    Kim Member

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    He flops a lot.

    He gets hit a lot too.

    He's so good and yet so evil.
     
  14. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

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    Manu probably draws the most contact in the NBA next to Dirk. The refs do need to watch how this contact is made though. He goes barrelling into the paint completely out of control and gets a call everytimes.

    As far as flopping goes, it has become a joke in the league. It's just terrible to see guys like Dirk and Manu flopping EVERY chance they get. You see the replays and it's a complete embarrassment how much the refs fall for this crap.
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    It's not how much Manu flops -- it's the overdramatic style that's so annoying.
     
  16. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Member

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    Don't want to be a geography police but Argentina is in South America.
     
  17. waran007

    waran007 Member

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    It's worth saying again: The fact that you can get a technical foul for "showing up" a referee yet you can blatantly try to fool the referee with flopping without any repercussion is just plain wrong. Diving is illegal in soccer and, now that the problem continues to get worse, it should be in the NBA as well. I bet Manu wouldn't flop as much if he knew it could cost him a free throw and posession.
     
  18. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    Manu played in Europe.

    I like Manu. Unlike other players (*cough* dirt...), he earns his fouls with contact and cojones. Some 'other' players just run into the painted area and throw their hands up. You guys bash Ginobli, but you all would love it if the ROX had their own "ginobli" on the team.
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    The biggest thing is not that they are fouls
    but that people get foul but act like they got SHOT

    The exaggerated motions and fling of arms etc

    Rocket River
     
  20. TECH

    TECH Member

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    "I'm 200 pounds and I'm slashing all the time, going against 300-pound guys," Ginobili said. "I'm telling you it's not easy to go finish, get hit and land on your feet."



    How many 300 lb players does the league have?
    :eek:
     

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