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Article: Courting Is Making a Comeback!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Manny Ramirez, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Was reading around the Internet the other day and stumbled across this article. The views on it are pretty extreme but somewhat interesting. I'm posting it more because it is such an extreme stance.



    An old-fashioned practice gains some new adherents

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By Marybeth Hart
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Stephen Ball is like most teen-agers -- he plays sports, hangs out at the mall, goes roller skating and bowling with his friends.
    But the 16-year-old from Lincoln, Ill., is quite different from most other pubescent boys. He has never been on a date with a girl, and he has no intention of going on one any time soon. In fact, when girls are interested in going out with him, he politely turns them down.
    "I've watched a lot of people that have dated, who go from girl to girl and there have been a lot of broken hearts," Stephen says. "I can be friends with everybody and I have never had any bad experiences."
    Stephen has chosen to follow the 19th-century practice of courtship -- no dating, no flirting, no physical contact of any kind with the opposite sex.
    His parents have adopted courtship principles for their family, part of a growing trend across the country. Their teen-age sons Daniel, 18, Stephen, 16, and Joshua, 13, are following in the footsteps of their older brother, Andrew, 20, who abstained from dating during his adolescence and is now in a courtship relationship.
    "Andrew has gone his entire life without a girlfriend and now he has met someone," Stephen says. "One of the benefits of it is, I can wait for God to show me the time and what girl I am to marry without any pressure to impress girls and make people jealous," he says.
    The courtship process -- the traditional ritual between men and women in the 19th and early 20th century -- begins when a young man contacts the parents of the young lady he is interested in pursuing for marriage. The girl's father spends time with him and gathers references from the man's acquaintances.
    The parents then present the proposal to their daughter. If she accepts, the man may pursue a relationship with her in chaperoned environments, usually without any physical intimacy whatsoever.
    The practice is making a comeback, says Kathy Morrissey, founder of Courtship Connection in Temperance, Mich.
    "More people are interested in courtship as they become aware of it," she says. "Most parents, when you mention the dangers and problems with dating, are anxious to hear an alternative."
    Mrs. Morrissey says her organization has received more requests for information as the word gets out about life before dating.
    "There used to be no such thing as dating," says historian Michael Hill, formerly at the University of Alabama. "There was a covenantal standard by which a young man and woman came together."
    And that was a good thing, Mr. Hill says. Courtship, with its ban on physical contact before marriage, actually increases romance because it builds anticipation and mutual respect.
    The trend has stunned some in the media. Joshua Harris of Gaithersburg, Md., gained some notoriety and many interviews last year after he and his fiance announced they would not kiss before their October marriage. Outside of marriage, young people should be friends at most, says Mr. Harris, who wrote "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" when he was 17.
    The book got good play in home-schooling circles and among conservatives who suspect that the typical American dating scene arouses too much passion.
    "Dating leads to a pattern and lifestyle that increases fornication, disease and divorce," says the Rev. Paul Jehle, pastor of New Testament Church in Plymouth, Mass., and author of the 1993 book "Dating vs. Courtship."
    "Courtship helps young people determine whether they are right for each other before they are physically and emotionally attached," he says.
    This old-fashioned approach first attracted the attention of the mainstream press when former three-time Olympian Jim Ryun and his wife, Anne, published an article in the November 1995 Focus on the Family magazine extolling the courtship methods they recommended to their four children.
    "At this very first meeting or phone call," they write, "the father explains that the family believes in courtship, which means that the young man must be spiritually and financially prepared to marry her if they fall in love. Otherwise, don't even bother starting a relationship. There are no casual 'tryouts' in courtship."
    The Ryuns' two sons know they have to follow the same guidelines, the article says.
    "Since courtship is reserved only for young couples spiritually and financially ready for marriage," the Ryuns write, "this effectively means no courtship or dating during the high school years, and perhaps not until after college graduation."
    Mr. Ryun, a Republican, was ridiculed by his opponents for these convictions, but he was elected the next year by Kansans to the House of Representatives nevertheless.
    Today, people try out different dating partners as they would new cars, Mr. Jehle says.
    "[Courtship] is the safest and most healthy way to protect yourself for marriage," Mr. Jehle says. "The couple goes into the marriage with commitment and stability already established."
    While the young man goes through rigorous and expensive measures to ensure approval from the parents, the woman is encouraged to have no attachments with other men.
    The only problem with courtship is it treats girls as chattel to be passed from one person to the next, says Bernice Humphrey, director of the "Healthy Girls" initiative for the New York-based Girls, Inc.
    "Girls need to fulfill their role as an independent adult and be able to take care of themselves," she says. "If courtship doesn't result in marriage, then what is she going to do?"
    Along with courtship, some conservative families have even revived the antiquated custom of dowries. Women can contribute economically for marriage by bringing into it a dowry, or property, which could mean land, money or even a house, which is given to the groom.
    "I encourage young people to save and build up financial insurance so they can bring a blessing into the marriage and get married out of debt, rather than combining debts," Mr. Jehle says.
    The Rev. S.M. Davis, pastor of Park Meadows Baptist Church in Lincoln, Ill., advises fathers not to make it easy on prospective suitors. He turns the notion of a dowry around by saying men should be willing to pay whatever price the girl's father determines for his daughter.
    In dating, men can simply walk away scot-free.
    "She's cheap and he treats her cheap," says Mr. Davis, who has four daughters.
    But the process could be eliminated all together, Mr. Davis points out. "If parents establish a loving environment and open communication, young people will invite their parents' help in finding the proper marriage partner," says the pastor, whose daughters gave him a golden key to wear around his neck as a reminder of his role in finding them husbands.



     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This appears to be severely problematic.
     
  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Perhaps the chaperoned environment could be Treasures. And in that case, if physical intimacy was ruled out with your date, you could still have a good time with the environment.
     
  4. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    In the immortal words of John Lydon, aka Johnny Rotten, onstage at the Sex Pistols final performance in San Francisco in 1978:

    NO FUN!! NO FUN!!! EVER GET THE FEELING THAT YOU'VE BEEN CHEATED???
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Why don't we just go back to trading cows for women?
     
  6. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    [​IMG]

    Let the kids dance!
     
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Teenage pregnancies in the US are at a 10 year low, having decreased by 30%. In contrast, in the UK, where there is cumpulsory sex ed and generous welfare programs for unwed mothers, teenage pregnancy is skyrocketing.

    We're on the right path. Even though its boring, it's better than 15 yr old kids having babies.
     
  8. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    One step away from arranged marriages and pretty creepy if you ask me.
     
  9. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Glad you brought that up. I know the article is a little extreme, but there are some good things from it and one of them is something that Mr. Clutch touched on in the teenage pregnancy issue.

    I know too many people who get married and are:

    1) Not really in love with each other but doing it because they think they have to because all their friends are married

    2) Only married because she got pregnant by him

    3) And most of the time, if they went through #2, they are not financially or emotionally ready to have a family.
     
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Teenage pregnancies are down because of increased birth control and sex education.
     
  11. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Did I misread, or is this process not voluntary? If so, where's the harm.


    Besides, in one form or another, this kind of thing , a nostalgic appeal to times past by re-enacting antiquated practices and thinking it will work, and bring back what was once supposed to have been a better time...


    ...just read any T_J post on economics for another example...
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Skyrocketing? Unless Northern Ireland and Scotland are dramatically skewing the figures, I find that hard to believe:

    Whoops, anyway isn't our rate still higher anyway? Don't know, just asking:

     
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Do you have any backup for this at all? Great Britain adopted these exact measures and they failed miserably!

    Link here:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$ZHGUH2ZSCOPJLQFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2004/01/11/wsex11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/11/ixworld.html

    "In Britain, the Government has adopted a vastly different approach - that of dishing out condoms and morning-after pills, making sex education compulsory in secondary schools, and inundating our teenagers with explicit information on sex. Sex education in our schools is aimed at increasing sexual knowledge and encouraging contraception to combat teenage pregnancy, rather than condemning underage sex: preventing pregnancy rather than preventing sex is the Government's aim.

    While it is a strategy that is lauded in liberal circles, it is also a strategy that has not worked. We have failed utterly to reduce the numbers of gymslip mothers. For the past 12 years Britain has been the pregnancy capital of Europe. According to Unicef's latest figures, in 2002 some 41,966 British girls under 18 became pregnant. Of those, 5,954 were 15; 2,011 were 14, and 450 were under 14."
     
  14. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Well, maybe your link is outdated.

    "For the past 12 years Britain has been the pregnancy capital of Europe. According to Unicef's latest figures, in 2002 some 41,966 British girls under 18 became pregnant. Of those, 5,954 were 15; 2,011 were 14, and 450 were under 14."
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Failed miserably?

    Apparently not as miserable as the measures we have adopted, from the study you cited:



    March of 03? Hardly outdated. You're looking at the 12 year sample, I'm looking at the 3 year sample. Isn't it ultimately moot?

    We have established that 1. both US and UK pregnancy rates are falling; and 2. that the US has a higher overall rate than the UK.

    This doesn't even mention the fact that the NEtherlands and other European countries have both sex ed and a far lower rate than anybody.
     
    #15 SamFisher, Jan 14, 2004
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2004
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Oh yeah, it's c*m-pulsory, very cumpulsory..the best kind of sex..ed.
     
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    1.We have established that the US policies are working MUCH better, as pergrancy rates in the US have fallen 30% in a decade while in Britian they have fallen 6% in 5 years. Nice try though.

    2. What does this prove, exactly, other than the US policies used to be horrible?

    Are you trying to become Trader_Sam?

    Perhaps it has more to do with welfare reform:
    "However, while results in America have been impressive, many critics of our liberal approach believe it has not been the "zip it" campaign alone that can take the credit. They point to Bill Clinton's welfare reform programme of the early 1990s that has helped slash America's statistics."
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Mr. C, I'm just citing the facts:

    UK rates are not "skyrocketing", over the last 3 years they have declined.

    US rates are still higher than UK rates. That's valid to your premise. You claimed our system worked better. The evidence that you cited shows otherwise. Sure, we're reducing our rates more quickly than them; that's because we had more to fix. S

    That doesn't change the bottom line : A teenager in the UK w/sex ed and all that is less likely to get pregnant than a teenager in the US that doesn't.

    Do with it what you will.
     
    #18 SamFisher, Jan 14, 2004
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2004
  19. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    And I have also seen kids growing up in one-parent homes, where the mother got pregnant at a young age. That causes a whole new set of problems.
     
  20. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    We have a new challenger.

    [​IMG]
     

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