Pretty interesting take on our favorite foulmouthed forward: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/columns/1202bickley.shtml dan.bickley@pni.com
He says... When you spend only four years in an organization, your number should be retired only if you lead the team to a title or perform above and beyond normal terms of duty. Yeah... like Kevin Johnson and all those championships he brought to Phoenix. Or heck, like any Sun that's every played for them that may have brought them a championship... Err... wait... how many championships have they won? Hmm... those rafters may never see a retired jersey again at this rate. What a boneheaded article with little-to-no substance whatsoever. And of course, he uses Pippen's statements to back him. Yes, Pippen, "the man of a thousand quits" who would rather backstab a friend than have the guts to stick with him. ------------------ Rocket fuel pumps through these veins...
BK. Are you implying Houston fans' reaction of Pippen leaving? ------------------ Rockets' biggest problem is not player talent levels, it is the coach's ineptitude.
I can't say I am surprised at Phoenix newspapers cutting Barkley down. To tell the truth, those 3's he jacks up do lack dedication to win. They hurt our team. And as ole Caveman says, we have done the same thing to Pippen. We all hate him - Houston media and fans. I always thought the Phoenix fans still liked Barkley though. I was surprised to hear them booing him. Thanks for the link.
Sorry. I do feel like I have to say it is very unfortunate that Charles is being attacked instead of appreciated in this his last year. On his farewell tour, he should get a little recognition for being a Top 50 Superstar. Really the article was in poor taste. Barkley doesn't care if they retire his number anyway. He wore his Philadelphia jacket for the Top 50 honors. And I really believe it is his last year. Each year seems to have gotten a little worse instead of better. Not his play but our team. NOBODY PLAYS HARDER! Kick butt, Chuck!
I emailed the guy a few minutes ago... We'll see if he replies. [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited December 02, 1999).]
The two things that stuck out most in that article were 1. Showing up with under 30 minutes till tipoff. Pippen? Your dedication comment was correct. 2. The comment he made about not getting a ring this year. It was all but saying the Rox have no shot. Now I don't have a problem with fans who think that way. Playing ball to win a title isn't their job. I would like to point out that I am very, very pleased with how Barkley is laying it on the line every game. I only am pissed when I see boneheaded mistakes that a 16 year vet. should not be making. ie. At the end of the 1st half against Phoenix with time running out. Instead of giving the ball to the point guard he casually strolled up court and launched a long shot. This team is not as bad as its record indicates. But for those who think Hakeem's injury is a blessing in disguise (which initially included me) Imagine the problems the Rox are going to have re-establishing Hakeems role on the team when he returns. Could be a problem.
caveman: on pippen... don't forget that it was sam smith of the tribune pointing out to us all how immature pippen was for all of those years behind mj, (lest any of us assume greatness by association) namely, pippen was getting slammed WHILE he was a bull, not after (there's a bit of a difference) ----------------------------------------- olden polynice (adverb) to be traded out of a spot which would otherwise allow you to be a better player than charles barkley. e.g. If Charles Oakley hadn't been Olden Polyniced away to New York, he would have had his ring by now
Let's also not forget that Pippen played for Houston for one year, and then threw a hissy fit to get himself traded. Barkley played for Philly for eight years and was traded by mutual consent of his management and the Sixers' front office. He played for Phoenix for four years and again was traded for the betterment of the team. In neither case did he conduct himself as petulantly as did Scottie Pippen this past off-season. The Houston media, and the Rockets' fans, turned on Pippen when he basically gave us the Hawaiian Good Luck sign with both middle fingers and split. The Philadelphia and Phoenix media, however, tended to be overwhelmingly pro-Barkley until the minute he was traded. Then, the typical media cheapshots began. That's all I was asking Mr. Bickley. Is he the exception to the rule, or did he hop off the Barkley Bandwagon the minute Charles became an ex-Sun? I think I already know the answer. Bickley's silence speaks volumes.
tds: on the hakeem concern... sadly at this point in hakeem's career, i too am concerned that he's coming back j/k dream rules. i think that this time will be unlike the 97-98 season in which dream came back from the knee surgery and for some reason BARKLEY sat on the pine, saying that Willis had earned it... well of course Willis had earned it, had dream? he stutter stepped up until the playoffs, where he finally turned it on. oh wait, he didn't turn it on, that was barkley too (j/k) in closing, i think that if this team is having winning days when dream comes back, that he won't forceably interrupt the flow (pretty please dream?) if he doesn't even hint at coming off of the bench, though, i will be greatly disappointed. it's cato's spot to lose, as far as i'm concerned. if barkley offers to come off of the bench, then a travesty will have occurred since this team is playing SO MUCH BETTER without dream (even against the suns)
I hate to admit this, but I kind of have to agree with the article. Yes, maybe there was some sore loser inside of it, but that doesn't take away from its truth. Basically, when you look at Barkley you can look at three players who had problems with him. 1. Mario Elie 2. Clyde Drexler 3. Scottie Pippen It can't be a coincedence that all three of these players play similar styles. The only difference is in the way each voiced his concern. Mario demanded to be traded only after hearing rumors of the Stoudamire deal, Drexler quietly retired, and Pippen quit. We can all agree that what Pippen did was wrong, but the reason behind it wasn't original. I think when we look back on Barkley's career we will see a player who sought the spotlight first and winning second. He played hard because he knew playing hard would get him into the spotlight. He didn't practice hard because who watches that? He took less money, but he held press conferences to announce it, and he agreed to come off the bench, but he made sure that EVERYONE knew how "unselfish" he was. Yes, he is one of the top 50 players in NBA history, but is that any reason to respect someone? Do we not respect Alex English or Dominique Wilkens simply because they weren't on the list? The list was simply a marketing ploy, so it inofitself cannot force me to respect anyone. I respect Barkley for the effort he puts out on the court and for his willingness to speak out and take the press' wrath on occasion. But then again, doesn't that accomplish his main goal? The spotlight, it's all about the spotlight. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
I do not really get the point of the letter to the writer. We're calling the writer a hypocrite, I guess, but he is not saying Charles sucks. He is saying Charles is not going to be remembered more as a comedian than a champion. I can think of one stat that might support his theory: # of laughs Barkley has gotten in his career: a million # of Championship Rings Barkley Has: 0 where's the confusion? The writer has the scoreboard here. I personally root for Barkley. I like him as a player and as a public person. He can rebound, he has a big heart, he calls them like he sees them. But he is not a team leader a la Hakeem, Jordan, Bird or Magic for the exact reason the author cited: the ability to win the big one. None of those guys would have let a championship slip through their fingers, being up 2-0 or 3-1 over the Rockets with a clear-ish path to the finals. Our championship teams - the ones which beat him, KJ, AC, Ainge, etc. are the proof he is not a champion. Hakeem is. Charles is not. Charles has had chances and teams with good supporting casts, but he has not quite gotten over the hump. It does not mean he is not a fine player, just not top shelf a la Hakeem, Jordan, Isaiah, etc. Those guys won, Charles did not. Good player, good guy, good competitor. Not a champion. No big deal- he hosted Saturday Night Live, you know. . . CBrownFanClub [This message has been edited by CBrownFanClub (edited December 03, 1999).]
Let me ask you this, Barzilla, if someone picks out three guys that have a bad relationship with you by rumor, does that mean you are a person with problems? is that what you are talking about? Hold on a second, if they have been on bad terms with you in reality, does that mean it's all your fault and you are the one condemnable? The final question is, bringing Pippen into discussion as an evidence to accuse CB for whatever reason is ridiculous, do you have any idea what you are talking about? You said what Pippen did was wrong, so what's your point in listing his name? Care to expalin? [This message has been edited by Finalfantasy (edited December 03, 1999).]
Finalfantasy, Let me say this, if I had three people who worked with me that had the exact same complaint then I would feel obligated to evaluate myself. This doesn't necessarily mean I would change or that they are right, but in most cases, it is a legitimate statement when a number of people make it. My use of Pippen is to illustrate that his complaint was exactly the same as Drexler and Elie's. It also shows that this complain has been leveled against Barkley for some time. I'm sure KJ and some of Barkley's old Phily teammates would echo the same thing. Again, I do not agree with the way that Pippen chose to voice his displeasure, but if his comments are taken in the context that he is one of many to say what he did then it doesn't make his opinion outrageous. The whole point is that if Barkley were really about championships then he would practice hard, train hard, and adapt his style so that it would mesh with his teammates. This isn't to say that Barkley doesn't want to win, he just wants to win on his own terms. ------------------ Rockets When? Rockets When?
barzilla, you are to Charles what Caveman is to RudyT didn't you ever watch Pollyana? there's the moment w/ the preacher where she spouts off the quote "If you look for the bad in mankind, you shall surely find it"... you should take that to heart. that being said, when you bring up (i'm not sure this is relevant to the article, but anyway) the three players, you yourself say... quote: Mario demanded to be traded only after hearing rumors of the Stoudamire deal, Drexler quietly retired, and Pippen quit. okay, so you yourself took elie out of this notion of charles' bad effect on people as soon as you tried to include him. the rockets didn't want elie(enough), remember? they had dickerson and made it clear they didn't want another old person in the lineup (i seem to recall a superbowl announcement by mario where he gave an ultimatum to the rockets). you added the other reason (and a very valid one, i might add) that mario (and kevin willis, other story) were both drastically hurt by the raptors rumors... enough said. pippen - enough said. this guy tried to feed off of rumors about drexler (discuss in a moment). have you ever heard of the 'borderline personality' complex. pippen reaks of it. he's almost his own person. why anyone would ever want to quote him is beyond me. drexler, oh the big one. clyde has been vocal in the media as to his problems with charles. perhaps by chance, i haven't heard anything said derogatory about drexler by charles (i'm sure you can help me w/ this one)... from some of the comments that drexler has pointed towards charles, it's evident that he thinks charles talks too damn much... that single point tends to put people into either one camp or the other; you like him or you don't (what camp are you in?). i don't know of any other reasons as to why drexler doesn't like charles; i honestly don't care. the night that drexler announced that he was retiring, foxsports announced that a rockets insider said that if clyde hadn't announced retirement, that they were going to ask him to anyway. even if that weren't[/i] the case, and clyde had all of the love in the world left in him for bball, would i give this any more merit? on the grounds that clyde might go somewhere else b/c he didn't like charles? i would think that it were unfortunate, but it rest on clyde's (and only clyde's... kj is a non issue (charles wanted him last year; he wanted the rocks... rudy was the issue), mario is a non issue (already discussed) and pippen puleaze) shoulders. i'm payed rather lucratively to be a software developer. oftentimes i do not like the employees that work for my client. as a professional I CHOOSE to get past personality conflicts and do my job. to do otherwise would be a disservice to my client (and also rather immature i might add) clyde knew the reality of his situation (i'm not sure if he knew his contract would not be renewed) and he acted thinking that he was choosing to take himself out of his situation. how many people did he have to work with? 15 players at the time, however many people are on staff w/ the rockets, etc. if he honestly quit b/c of charles, then his priorities were misaligned. your concerns w/ this, though, are moot, he wouldn't have been a rocket anyway.
"Let me just say this, if I had three people who worked with me that had the exact same complaint then I would feel obligated to reevaluate myself." Sorry I don't see any basis in such statement, What did Clyde, Mario and Pippen said of Barkely that is in common? Pippen didn't compain about CB's style of posting up, he comlained about the whole team, the whole system and especially Rudy. How can you include Pippen in this case? And pls enlighten me what did Mario say about CB's style of playing? "My use of Pippen was to illustrate that his complaint was exactly as Drexler and Elie's." Wow that's convinient. I remember everything Pippen said about CB, can you tell me about it? "I'm sure KJ and some of Barkley's old Phily's teammates would echo the same thing." I am sure that most people won't say that if they don't know KJ. In fact, CB meshed every well with his Phily and Suns teammates in terms of chemistry. "The whole point is that if Barkley were really about championships he would practice hard, train hard, and adapt his style so that it would mesh with his teammates." Sorry barzilla, in the real world players do what the coach tell them to do, if the coach tells them to post up they will post up. Besides, why does CB has to cope with other players, not the other way around? Why don't you tell Pippen to adapt his style and mesh with the teammates? Again, how can you blame CB so one sidedly? First of all, Mario and Pippen left the Rockets because they sucked, don't try to pull CB into it. Second of all, if Drexler can't "adapt" with CB's play, following you logic, then I don't think he is all about championship either.
