http://www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount/docs/standards.htm I know I know ... we are all tired of hearing about this, but I just thought I would say: I told you so!!!! "Counting every dimple, pinprick, hanging chad and clean punch identified on ballots reviewed by BDO Seidman accountants is the broadest possible standard that can be used to decide when a mark is a vote. Stricter standards can be applied, but the overall finding remains the same: Bush emerges as the winner. But that's not to say that differing standards don't affect the numbers. For example, when The Herald counted undervotes in 139 precincts that the Miami-Dade canvassing board had recounted by hand, the result was slightly more Gore votes than the canvassing board reported. The canvassing board found a net gain for Gore of 168. The Herald's review of those same 139 precincts yielded a net gain for Gore of 184. Some experts say the difference may be due purely to mechanics, not differing standards. They note, for example, that the canvassing board reviewed all the ballots cast in those precincts, whereas BDO Seidman reviewed only the undervotes. The experts also note that chads fall every time the ballots are handled. In other words, every recount is likely to turn up new votes. The first recount mandated by state law found 98 new votes in all Miami-Dade precincts -- probably the result of partially dislodged chads falling off the ballots, experts say. Further bolstering the fallen-chad theory: In its review of 139 precincts, the canvassing board turned up 388 new votes. The Herald's review of the same 139 precincts found 426 new votes. While the canvassing board found 168 net votes for Gore in the 139 precincts it hand-counted, The Herald's review of the remaining precincts showed that Bush would have been likely to dominate there, thus cutting Gore's lead. The Herald's review found that Bush would have carried the remaining precincts by 135 votes under the most liberal interpretation of a valid vote. The Herald review also suggests that a stricter standard -- one used by elections officials in Palm Beach County during part of their recount -- would have reduced the number of ballots considered to contain valid votes in Miami-Dade. That standard required that dimpled presidential ballots be counted only if dimples were found elsewhere on the ballot. Such a standard would have cut the number of votes for both candidates in Miami-Dade, and Gore's net gain would drop from 49 to 26. In the precincts not reviewed by the Miami-Dade canvassing board, Bush's dominance would have dropped under the stricter standard to 62 net votes. The Miami-Dade review also casts doubt on conventional wisdom surrounding the presidential election. For example, the review turned up no evidence that Gore supporters were more likely to ``dimple'' their ballots than Bush supporters were. Comparing dimples for both Bush and Gore to the clearly valid votes those candidates received suggests that Bush supporters in Miami-Dade actually were slightly more prone to sloppy voting -- by a ratio of one Bush dimple for every 277 clean Bush votes. For Gore, the ratio is one dimple for every 310 clean votes." ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
You told us what? Yes, you are correct. We ARE all tired of hearing about it. ------------------ "You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY! - Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards
Dade county is only one county. This argument is like abortion. One side will always see it different than the other. ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Count all of Florida, and Gore wins handilly. ------------------ "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning how to put food on their family while being put to death."
Gore lost. Bush won. Its over now. ------------------ Whatever you want to do, you have to do something else first.
(First off, I've not seen the numbers that show Gore winning if the entire state is recounted that democrats.com or whoever has. I have seen one of the newspaper counts of all the state's undervotes show Bush still winning, though, in a total statewide recount.) But assuming that those numbers that someone other then the people doing the actual counting have are true, the selective recount in the Counties that Gore wanted recounted, has Gore still losing. That's actually sort of an interesting outcome. If it is true that a statewide recount would've seen Gore victorious but the selective recount that Gore mostly pushed for wouldn't have seen Gore victorious, it sort of flies in the face of conventional wisdom. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
mrpaige, it (the statement that if all of Florida was recounted after the deadline using different standards than those that were sanctioned by law at the time of the vote, Gore would win) is not true-- that's why you haven't heard it. There's no evidence whatsoever to support this theory. It's wishful thinking on the part of a small group of sore losers. He lost. We can bend the rules any way the Democrats want other than allowing corpses to vote (they'd one of their own and push Gore over the top), and he still loses. ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited February 27, 2001).]
With this most recent count, they came to the conclusion that, if added to all other added votes in the state, Gore would still have lost by about 140 votes or so... Peoplnee to l all of this stupid nonsense go. No more, "I told you so"s, no more "If"s. Just get on with your lives. We have a really bad president who won fairly against an even worse candidate. Life goes on. ------------------ Take an object. Do something to it. Do something else to it. " " " " "
I can't believe people are actually still worried about that. Bush maybe president, but his popularity was severely weakened. Nobody won that debacle and Florida is STILL in doubt, so why worry about? ------------------ Dream a deadly Dream. . .
His 'popularity' might be weakened, but the most recent Gallup poll shows Bush's approval rating at 62 percent and his disapproval rating at 21 percent. That's lower than any president taking office prior to the 1990s (other than Nixon, by 2 pts)-- but it's more than ten points higher than Bill Clinton's ratings at the same point in his tenure.
Funny how the only people who seem to be talking about this are Republicans. The dems are over it (except maybe ZRB). Message to Bush-ophiles. Your sad-sack candidate won, so put the debate behind you. Talk about something current. Like, are you happy with how he's spending his first 100 days (traditionally the best time to get big legislation through)? So far the only thing I've seen are controversial appointments and another bombing of Iraq. ------------------ In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
Yeah, and if a recount had shown that Gore would've won, then Republicans would be telling Democrats to get over it. I've been over it since Gore conceded. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
Sam, you might want to wake up and try paying attention before you criticize Bush for a lack of action. So far, the Bush White House has: * Assembled his Cabinet * Outlined his tax-cut proposal, just as he said he'd do during the campaign * Met with Jean Chretien, Vincente Fox and Tony Blair * Submitted his education plan to Congress; the plan included an increase of $4.6 billion in spending * Hosted an economic forum for leaders of high-tech industries in order to have his ring kissed * Announced his 'new Federalism' initiative, which I will believe when I see and which would transfer power from the federal government to state and local governments * Announced the creation of a panel to study Social Security reform, again as he'd promised during the campaign * Issued four executive orders halting the abuse of mandatory union contributions * Announced a collective $1 billion raise for the men and women of our armed forces * Delivered a "Howdy" basket to Saddam That's in less than 40 days. I don't know exactly what you'd expected him to accomplish, but if it's more than that, then I suggest that you should have voted for him-- because you obviously think he's Superman. ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited February 27, 2001).]
There's still plenty of time for the old Son of a Bush to screw up. All he has to do is open his mouth. Give him time...he's a little slow, you know! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
Brian, how come you didn't mention the "Office of Faith Based Charity", and President Bush's attempt to blur the separation of Church and State? As Governor, Bush was a major supporter of voucher programs that would reimburse parents and provide "opportunity scholarships" for students attending private and religious schools. He also supported religion-based rehabilitation programs for penal inmates and drug/alcohol abusers. Texas boasts the largest program in the country using faith-based regimens, including one operated by Charles Colson's Prison Fellowship Ministry. The 2-year, $5 million program is up for renewal shortly and thus far has been paid for with private funds; however, prison security and support services, which enable Colson's program to operate, are provided at public expense. I'm sorry, but "Your President" is continually trying to blur the separation between church and state, and eventually, intelligent non-Christian Americans are going to begin to call it what it really is. ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
* Assembled his Cabinet Don't like most of them. * Outlined his tax-cut proposal, just as he said he'd do during the campaign. A campaign promise kept? Go on! * Met with Jean Chretien, Vincente Fox and Tony Blair Good for him. * Submitted his education plan to Congress; the plan included an increase of $4.6 billion in spending Including money for vouchers...next. * Hosted an economic forum for leaders of high-tech industries in order to have his ring kissed That's really kinda funny! * Announced his 'new Federalism' initiative, which I will believe when I see and which would transfer power from the federal government to state and local governments Totally agree on this one. * Announced the creation of a panel to study Social Security reform, again as he'd promised during the campaign Two campaign promises met? Is that a record? * Issued four executive orders halting the abuse of mandatory union contributions Doesn't bother me - we're a right-to-work state anyway. * Announced a collective $1 billion raise for the men and women of our armed forces He could pay for all of that if he'd just cut back on other military spending. In fact, if he'd cut military spending by 1%, he could pay for his education spending AND the raise for the military personnel. Of course, that won't happen. * Delivered a "Howdy" basket to Saddam Thought that was stupid considering they are about to ease restrictions anyway. Well, he is working. I'll give him that. ------------------ "You know what they say about the music business. Here today, gone TODAY! - Chris Rock at the MTV Music Video Awards
BK, wow. That's quite a list! Of course I'm not sure that any of that stuff is meaningful, but at least we're talking about current events now instead of old news. His tax cut proposals were already spelled out in the campaign. His education plan might be promising, though I'd like to see fewer vouchers. And an extra $1 billion in pay for the military? Maybe I should "Yvan eht nioj!" ------------------ In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
I forgot. A) He's your President too. Don't like it? Move. B) In the meantime, we stupid Christian Americans will continue our subterfuge in trying to alternately hoard all of the tax revenue we can while simutaneously trying to strip rights away from the heathens. So? The question was, "What's Bush done since taking office?" I was simply answering. I don't give a damn if we're about to give Saddam a Grammy; if Iraq doesn't follow the rules, I say we bomb em even further back from the Stone Age they're currently enjoying. Me neither. ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson
Ahh, Kagy back in form...gotta love it. As for the he's your president too comment, I've been screaming that at the idiots who have that stupid My President is Charlton Heston bumper sticker on their hick-mobile for the past 8 years (or however long Moses has been president of the NRA). ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
