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Are we just going to ignore James Harden's stellar defense?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by topfive, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Yes, I just used "James Harden" and "stellar defense" in the same thread title. Sue me.

    We've all heard that stats show Harden this year is an elite post defender, and not just among guards. He's more effective in the post than many big men. That only tells part of the story. Here are more stats:

    4th in steals
    Leads the NBA in deflected passes
    15th in loose balls recovered

    Among guards, he's:
    4th in rebounding
    8th in blocked shots


    All of those are effort plays. The knock on Harden has always been that he doesn't try very hard on defense. The eyeball test this year already says that's not the case, with the exception of a few plays where he takes the smart choice by not risking a pointless foul. The above stats bear it out.

    This isn't a surprise to anyone who watches the games, but there are still people on ClutchFans who think Harden doesn't put forth enough effort on defense (right, @DaDakota?).

    We all knew James could play defense, we just never knew if he would ever actually do it night in and night out (thanks, Drex!). Hopefully that narrative will start to change soon.
     
    #1 topfive, Jan 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2019
  2. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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  3. noppeper

    noppeper Member

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    Above all else, I think the biggest improvement of Harden this year has been his conditioning and increased, sustained strength. This has allowed him to be a difference maker on both sides of the court and essentially bully opponents offensively and defensively. Sometimes it seems like he is the only man on the court playing amongst boys.

    I think this bodes well for the Rockets chances in the playoffs, as he is proving that even when his offensive game is a bit off, he can still be productive and even take over defensively. It's kind of insane to see what he is doing this year - from MVP to most improved player?!? Moving from elite to an all time great.
     
  4. Elephant810

    Elephant810 Member

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    Harden’s D this year has been solid. Maybe not All-NBA but clearly above average. He’s been especially awesome in the post.
     
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  5. bj3175

    bj3175 Member

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    Lets not talk about it so teams keep getting induced that James cannot play defense lol. They will learn che plays D when he has to. The national media is always talking about his usage rate but James has accounted for that with the type of style he is playing with
     
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  6. Elephant810

    Elephant810 Member

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    In terms of strength the guy is a monster. It’s really crazy to think that he’s so much better than last year when he won MVP...
     
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  7. DavidRocket

    DavidRocket Member

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    I've been in the minority with the sentiment that Harden is a good defender. He's carrying the most load than ANY alpha player I know of in History and is sustaining it year after year. I can totally understand if he has to conserve his energy from time to time.

    However, this year, he's carrying probably the most load while playing GREAT defense in key/clutch moments. That's phenomenal and is a testament to his conditioning...which is World Class by the way.

    If there were an "engineered" prototype for a basketball player...Harden would be it. He's got the durability, handles, decent athleticism, IQ, vision, Bag of moves, efficiency and DEFENSE.

    Guy's got it all and I am just impressed (not by his nightly 40 points anymore) by his conditioning and dominance as a Houston Rockets NBA player.
     
  8. DavidRocket

    DavidRocket Member

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    Define "all NBA" and cite specific examples. I know you're not meaning to knock Harden by saying that...but that's just getting tired to hear people say. What exactly do people want from Harden? honest question.

    How great was Kobe at defense? I've seen Kobe play as well as 80's and 90s basketball. I know what good defense looks like. Who are people comparing Harden's defense to? Are people being honest with the comparisons? all honest questions here.....
     
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  9. BallSoHarden

    BallSoHarden Member

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    Not ignoring, just didn't want to jinx anything until we see how his conditioning is after having an insane usage this season. We're only a little over half way through only. They are running out of things to hate on Harden about though, all that is left is the constant too many FT argument and playoff performance (both of which are weak, but need something spectacular to happen to make these go away). From following these guys on social media, it seems like he's changed his lifestyle from his early 20s.
     
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  10. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    I think the biggest difference is that Kobe and MJ always looked like they were locked in. They had that semi-Patrick-Beverley thing going. Harden doesn't look like that. In fact, he often looks like he's about to be abused, even in the paint. But he's so damn smart and has such quick instincts and quick hands, and that solid body and strength, that he's able to neutralize guys.
     
  11. DavidRocket

    DavidRocket Member

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    Ok thanks for replying but that's still a very subjective reason to "knock" Harden. Harden might not appear to be "engaged" but what we see is just what we see....not necessary reality. We don't know what goes on internally. I'm sure everyone has different ways of "locking" in and manifesting it.

    What are important are results. And the results of Harden's defense speak for themselves. Harden has shown time and time again that his defense will be elite and on point when it matters. I'm more than fine with that.

    Take the game against the Raptors (I believe). Harden had a key block on the perimeter in crunch time on I forget who. He's done that in other games in similar situations including the Warriors if I'm not mistaken. He's just been great and I for one believe he's an all time great.

    He really really REALLY needs that one ring to solidify his legacy. I hope it happens for him.
     
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  12. Voltik

    Voltik Member

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    Harden’s main weaknesses on the defense in previous years was ball watching when his man cuts and boxing out and to certain extent blow by on single coverage.

    Credit the coaching staff espically Bzdelik on findings ways for Harden to be effective on the defensive end and Harden taking the opportunity and excelling in it.

    It’s truly amazing on what he’s been doing on the offensive end while improving on the defensive end. As a previous poster mentioned, his conditioning is superb. Everything about Harden right now is beyond anyone's expectations or imagination. Even his leadership skills have been nothing short of amazing. It is truly remarkable that he has taken his game to another level in every aspect this past month. <insert blow your mind gif>
     
  13. Fyreball

    Fyreball Member

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    We're certainly not ignoring it, but you bet your ass most national pundits and all casual NBA fans (who also happen to be the most outspoken) are. If they can't make fun of his flopping and his crappy defense, they'd literally have nothing to live for.
     
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  14. bongman

    bongman Member

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    Waiting for the EG defensive thread as well. He has been shutting down guards from driving and defending taller low post players.
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    His D is absolutely fine. His post-D has always been underrated. His transition D under McHale was the worst I have ever seen in my life in pro or college basketball. Take that for data.
     
  16. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Let's not forget, Harden's playoff defense has also never been a problem...certainly not like Curry's or Kyrie's. It's like the reverse of his offense narrative, "All Regular Season, but not playoffs" ... his past defense is missing in regular season but not playoffs.

    How many times has the media ever said, "Rockets lost that playoff game because Team X exploited Harden's defense."

    like non
     
  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I thought of posting this earlier
    NO WE WILL NOT!!!!

    Rocket River
     
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  18. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Matt Moore told me Harden has been atrocious this year defensively.

     
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  19. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Great point on Bzdelik influence. Also believe Paul and PJ have been positive influencers on D.

    It takes a culture for true change to occur, love the teams chemistry from FO to coaching to players in leadership plus buy in by role players.
     
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  20. topfive

    topfive CF OG

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    Matt Moore must not be watching Harden play.

    One of the things I hate is when anti-Harden people talk about how what a cheater he is, how he only tries to draw fouls, how the refs give him phantom fouls, etc. Then they nearly always say, "Harden's and the Rockets' style is so ugly I refuse to watch it." So they're making assessments based on ESPN and Twitter clips, basically.

    On a side not, @Deuce: So YOU'RE the Chris White I've seen pimping the Rockets on Twitter. Guess what my RL name is. :)
     
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