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Are the number of American deaths in Iraq acceptable?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Chump, Apr 20, 2004.

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Are the number of American deaths in Iraq acceptable?

  1. Acceptable

    20 vote(s)
    41.7%

  2. Unacceptable

    28 vote(s)
    58.3%
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  1. Chump

    Chump Member

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    Americans Squirm as U.S. Death Toll in Iraq Surges

    By Will Dunham

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. troops are dying in higher numbers in Iraq (news - web sites) this month than at any time during the war, with polls showing rising unease among Americans over the mounting death toll and doubts about the conflict's merits.


    At least 106 U.S. troops have died in April amid fierce attacks by insurgents in both Sunni Muslim and Shi'ite regions -- far more than any month since the U.S.-led invasion to oust President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites). The previous peak was 82 deaths in November during an earlier spike in attacks by insurgents.

    In 13 months of military involvement in Iraq, 709 Americans have been killed in Iraq, the Pentagon (news - web sites) said on Tuesday.

    The death toll in the first three weeks of April has about matched the 109 killed in combat from the March 2003 start of the invasion until President Bush (news - web sites) declared an end to "major combat" operations six weeks later. Bush made that declaration aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln standing in front of a banner stating, "Mission Accomplished."

    In a Washington Post-ABC News poll of 1,201 U.S. adults published on Tuesday, 65 percent said there had been an "unacceptable" number of U.S. military casualties while 33 percent said the level was "acceptable."

    Analysts said the mounting U.S. death toll illustrates the rising difficulty of the military task and threatens to undermine public support for Bush's Iraq policies during a presidential election year.

    'DOESN'T BODE WELL'

    "What it shows is that the breadth of the insurgency is increasing, that our troops are confronting firefights on multiple fronts, and the sophistication of the insurgents is growing," said Cato Institute defense analyst Ted Carpenter.

    "This doesn't bode well for the fate of our mission, unfortunately."

    Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has expressed surprise at the recent level of U.S. military deaths in Iraq.

    "We're in a different phase of the war now," said Army Lt. Col. James Cassella, a Pentagon spokesman. "Major combat operations resulted in the decisive defeat of Saddam Hussein's forces, while operations since represent a different kind of war."

    Cassella said the death toll "strengthens our resolve" to complete the Iraq mission.

    Duke University political scientist Peter Feaver said polls have indicated dropping public confidence about prospects for eventual victory in Iraq.

    "The long pole in the tent for public stomach for military operations is expectations of victory," Feaver said. "That's more important than the human costs or the financial costs. The public will pay those costs when they think victory is likely. And they will not pay when they think victory is not likely."

    Feaver cited a poll of 1,267 Americans released last week by the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center in which a majority, 51 percent, said the situation in Iraq was not worth going to war over, while 43 percent said it was worth it.

    Carpenter said the Bush administration was in "a very delicate position," like the one encountered by President Lyndon Johnson early in the Vietnam War.

    "Much like Lyndon Johnson's administration in 1964 and early 1965, it faces a fundamental choice: Does it escalate in an effort to salvage the mission? Or does it try to wind down this mission, declare 'victory' and go home? I certainly hope that this administration profits from Johnson's experience."


    Johnson poured U.S. forces into Vietnam in an ultimately failed war in which 58,000 American troops were killed.
     
    #1 Chump, Apr 20, 2004
  2. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    A question that I would have answered differently before the war. We are there; we are committed; to leave is not acceptable; these deaths have to be acceptable.
     
    #2 No Worries, Apr 20, 2004
  3. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    Considering we've found no WMD or ties to Al Qaeda from the former Saddam Regime and that the Iraqis who were supposed to welcome us with open arms and turn over left over Baathists are shooting at us that any amount of deaths would be acceptable.

    The reasons for going into Iraq have been proven wrong. Even the reason for liberating the Iraqis since even Shiites are shooting us. I don't believe we can withdraw until there is a functioning plan for stability but we never should've have even gotten into this situation.
     
    #3 Sishir Chang, Apr 20, 2004
  4. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    It is now about 1/4 the amount that died on 9-11.
     
    #4 MR. MEOWGI, Apr 20, 2004
  5. Rocket Fan

    Rocket Fan Member

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    how are we defining this...


    we are there.. I personally agree with us being there, but even if you don't..

    are you asking if the military is doing a good enough job? or is this a poll factoring in if people think we should or should not be there..
     
    #5 Rocket Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  6. Rocket Fan

    Rocket Fan Member

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    I should have added that the reason I ask is I personally don't know enough about miiltary strategy to know if it's specific mistakes that are causing the deaths etc..

    I'll vote yes because it seems like a reasonable number considering the circumstances of the country
     
    #6 Rocket Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  7. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Rocket Fan would you feel the same way if your brother, cousin or father was over there?

    And how many is not reasonable?
     
    #7 mc mark, Apr 20, 2004
  8. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    According to www.iraqbodycount.net, the high-end figure for the range of the death count for Iraqi civilians has surpassed 10,000.

    That number is over 4 times the number that died on 9/11.
     
    #8 RocketMan Tex, Apr 20, 2004
  9. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    Two wrongs don't make a right.
     
    #9 ROXTXIA, Apr 20, 2004
  10. Rocket Fan

    Rocket Fan Member

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    mc mark.. I think that goes back to whether or not you support being over in that country or not. If you do support the war you have to expect some deaths. I'm not saying it's "okay" that people are dead, what I'm saying is.. is that I expected at least this many. Less than 2 a day.. seems like a number you'd expect from a war. Frankly, I was worried at the beginnning that we may end up with intense fighting if they fought from the city from day 1 and end up with more deaths then we have now.

    What I'm saying is. if we are going to have a war and be in a country for over a year, I would expect this many deaths. It certainly doesn't make it any less painful to know that people are dead though.
     
    #10 Rocket Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  11. Rocket Fan

    Rocket Fan Member

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    I just read someone else's post. sorry about double post..

    I guess what I'm saying is I don't know what is considered the "acceptable amount" to be a military victory, but since there are less than 2 a day.. (there are probably more murders than that in Houston a day).. in a country that is in the turmoil that Iraq is probably in now.. I don't see how you could not have deaths everyday. Our military is good no doubt, but asking them to have less than they do would be pretty dificult.

    Do I like that people are dead? No way. Did I expect americans to die? Yes.
     
    #11 Rocket Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  12. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    :confused:
     
    #12 MR. MEOWGI, Apr 20, 2004
  13. glynch

    glynch Member

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    They are acceptable to Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. That is all that is important at the moment.
     
    #13 glynch, Apr 20, 2004
  14. Rocket Fan

    Rocket Fan Member

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    from a miliatary standpoint though.. do you think they could have fought this war and stayed in iraq with a lot less deaths?.. that is what I was looking at when I voted acceptable...
     
    #14 Rocket Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  15. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I would say it was acceptable if we could see optimistic results from our already established goals. The fact that it's Iraqi people killing our soldiers with no outcry from other Iraqis gives doubts that this is/will be a worthwhile sacrifice by the American people.
     
    #15 Invisible Fan, Apr 20, 2004
  16. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]
     
    #16 KingCheetah, Apr 20, 2004
  17. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    Technocrat Rumsfeld has an interesting opinion about that. Check with him.
     
    #17 Fegwu, Apr 20, 2004
  18. Uncle_Tim

    Uncle_Tim Member

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    First of all, loss of American life is not acceptable on any occasion. Period.

    Now, everyone is so upset over this whole body count crap. While any death is tragic, it is far better than anticipated. Combat is in an urban environment in Iraq right now. The predicted ratio of death is at least 25% if not more for the urban environment. While everyone is b****ing about Vietnam's death rate, these are two completely separate battlefields. Statistically, the death rate is extremely LOW.
     
    #18 Uncle_Tim, Apr 20, 2004
  19. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    So is our force structure in country. We are in deep ****. The whole conflict and it's runup is a litany of one mistake, one miscalculation, one overoptimistic (to be kind) decision after another. This war will keep doctoral students busy with dissertations the next 50 years analyzing just how many mistakes Bush and his crew made during this fiasco.
     
    #19 Deckard, Apr 20, 2004
  20. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    You hit the nail right on its head.

    I don't think we should be there in the first place so any death of a US soldier in Iraq is unacceptable. OTOH I thought we should be in Afghanistan and accept that there are US casualties there.
     
    #20 Sishir Chang, Apr 20, 2004
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