I want to apologize to anyone who was offended by my most recent post. I did not mean to insult anyone's intelligence or anything like that. (Hence, from here on out I will refrain from posting after long days in the hot sun drinking more than 2 beers.) gr8-1 says: You make the Rockets sound like a BAD team. Inconsistent, yes. But bad ? No, they're over .500 and are in playoff contention. I never said the Rockets would be a BAD team. In fact, I said they would be improved. But, I said they would not have what it took to make the playoffs in the West, which is loaded... Hence my assertion: Granted, I do think that they will have some improvement over last year, but the West got a lot stronger during the offseason, and those little wins against the Lakers and Blazers we got last year are just not going to happen this year. Take the Mavericks off our list of "sure wins", plus the Kings are still going to give us fits. This is not to say that the season will not be exciting. I will have much fun watching the Rockets grow and learn and hopefully provide a lot of good entertainment. But, as young and inexperienced as they are, I don't hold any illusions that they will make the playoffs this year any more than they could have last year. If they get Webber, they'll be in the playoffs next year (if their health holds up) and probably a 3rd to 5th seed at that (a legitimate go-to guy will do that for you). If they don't, I AM willing to wager that they will not make the playoffs until 2005 season. Why? The rest of the West is just too young and too good. Dallas, LA, Portland, Phoenix, Minnesota, Sacramento (where Webber will stay if we don't get him, I think), and San Antonio all have GREAT young nuclei that will still be good (if not better) for the next 4 years. Utah is the only exception but I don't think the Rockets will move up. I think Seattle will get it together during this offseason and make a run. Plus, as long as they have Malone (and he could be playing for like 10 more years as healthy as he's been) they will make the playoffs every year. Maybe not as a high seed, but they'll be there. Also, just for the record, it's not that I don't think the Rockets will be good, I just don't see them getting very far with Francis and Mobley as their main go to guys until at least 2005. In my opinion, it will take those guys a little longer to mature than most people think, so they need a veteran big man who can really score and rebound. Remember, before Hakeem had his "reawakening" the Rockets were falling out of contention. He really gave them a lift once he got over the Miami thing and when he went down the team started to suffer. I think that says a lot about the Rockets weakness and why they KNOW they need Webber if they are going to contend at all. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Axeman (edited April 02, 2001).]
That's patently ridiculous. Why? Phoenix is a patch-work team. Robinson doesn't look very stable there and Kidd's body is aging early. Marion is the only truly young piece of that team. Seattle is dead. Payton is gone. Ewing will retire. Lewis will not be good enough to take his place. The rest of their players are piecemeal. The T'Wolves have no draft picks coming in. How are they going to get better? Brandon and Garnett aren't going to improve much. Wally might... a little, but not too much. The rest of the team will falter with no draft picks and cap problems. San Antonio. How much can Tim Duncan do alone? The Admiral won't be around much longer. Avery Johnson is almost finished. Wait and see. Portland - Will they implode if they don't win the championship this year? They might. And one wonders just how long Paul Allen will pay for no results. Those are the teams that I see as the most vulnerable, besides Utah. I don't think any of them can guarantee themselves the playoffs 2 years from now. You're just a pessimist. Shoo . ------------------ Boston College - Big East -East Division Regular Season Champs Worst to First in 2001!
I'm one of the few who believes the Rockets have a good shot at Webber. But even if he winds up elsewhere, the team has a lot of flexibility to improve in the off-season. So the team will be in the playoffs next year. I think the Rockets pay lip-service to making the playoffs, but recent play and attitudes (a little too happy-go-lucky on the bench; I noticed this from courtside Thursday night) make me think otherwise. A fly on the wall of CD's office might overhear something about the value of this year's draft picks as opposed to getting mauled in the playoffs. Just an opinion. ------------------
AXEMAN As I stated in the other thread I think you *maybe* right about the results but. . . . You assumptions about this team were VERY WRONG Rocket River ------------------
Making predictions 4 years in advance is a bit ridiculous. In the past 4 years, we have acquired/lost players such as Pippen, Francis, Mobley, Taylor, Anderson, and Cato. We have exactly TWO players that we had 4 years ago (Hakeem and Bullard). During the 4 previous years, we went through players including Barkley, Drexler, Cassell, Horry, Elie, and Chucky Brown . Unless you predicted all of the above, I think it may be a tad far-fetched to predict what might happen four years from now. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets.
Don't forget the rule changes. It's valid to assume things might not change much, but a lot of teams will be affected by them. ------------------
I think as long as CD is in the office and Rudy is the coach, the Rockets will be better than Nuggets and a few other teams. That is the bottomline. Even without Webber, they could make the playoffs, though not evey year. I just hope Francis can stay healthy until a very good frontcourt comes along. Anyhow, Axeman, I like what you said about go-to guys. Those are valid points worthy of discussion, but you probably could avoid trying to make other fans look bad, espcially when the Rockets look bad. I visited some BBSs on NBA where fans from every team curses one another (most of the time Jazz fans vs the rest of the world). That is not good for health. IMO, this is not a BBS of right of wrong. Since we come together because we are all Rockets supporters, at least we can respect one another for loving the same team. Many guys really had great/humorous posts here. It is hard to find if you support other teams. I feel blessed with such a great fans site. The only complaint I have is I read the BBS too often. ------------------ "'Guys, stand on my shoulders. I will take you to the prom tonight.' That is what he does." ........ Sam Cassel on Hakeem in 95 playoffs
What tells you that Seattle will put it together and the Rockets won't ? Is it because Ewing will be a year older ? Will Vin Baker be bigger and less motivated ? Will Payton actually let McMillan stay ? How is Minnesota gonna improve ? ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
Huh!? Portland has a better young nucleus? All they have Stoudamire, who doesn't play defense, and whom the Blazers have tried to trade so badly they got aging Rod Strickland to try and force Stoudamire out, and they have Rasheed Wallace, who is a hot head. I'm willing to bet that Mobley and Francis can carry a team better in a year or two then Rasheed Wallace. Phoenix? Kidd is only a little better NOW then Francis is, and Francis is improving. And of course Shawn Marion. After that who else does Phoenix have? The young nucleus of 10+ year veteran Cliff Robinson and 28 year old Rodney Rogers, and a banged up, lazy, unmotivated Penny Hardaway who may never be the same!? San Antonio? All they have is the disappointing Derek Anderson and Tim Duncan. The rest of that team is old, or inconsistent and not future stars. The Lakers are fighting amongst each other, and their future is in doubt with an aging supporting cast and no cap room. Minnesota!? Terrell Brandon is a good, not great PG who is up there in years. Wally is a good role player, but isn't getting much better. So Kevin Garnett makes Minnesota better then Houston for years to come? So all those teams, who by the way don't have cap space, but we do, have a better "young" team and brighter future then we do? Give me a break! Malone isn't going to play another 10 years. In fact, he has shown signs of age this year. He's still having a good year, but he has slowed down more noticeably this year. As for Seattle putting it together this offseason, Payton and Baker have demanded to be traded, and Payton has whined so much in the lockerroom that Ruben Patterson is gone, and it is hurting their bench with him leaving. Ewing is old and gone. Rashard Lewis still has some growing to do, Baker is overrated, and Brent Barry isn't doing a thing. They are far over the cap, with no solid frontline. But they're going to put it together and the Rockets aren't!? ------------------ Meow! [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited April 03, 2001).]
I hate to join the pessimist but there might be some truth to Axeman's assessment. I live in MN and it definately looks like other young teams in the West like the T-wolves will be a threat to future Rocket dominance though probably not to the Rockets making the playoffs. All the second tier Western Conference teams, including the Rockets and the T-wolves, are only one or two players away from dominating. Not to forget the young tier one teams like LA and Sacremento, if they keep Webber, who could hang on at the top for years to come. Of course like Yogi Berra says, "Predictions are hard to make, especially about the future." Even if the conference is tough the Rockets still have a legitimate shot next year to be a power in the West. If you look at the Rockets' own history who would have thought that with an undertalented team the Rockets would win a championship in 1994 and with an often injured team that they would win another one in 1995 defeating teams soundly that on paper should have destroyed them. You can never count out the Rockets! Afterall we wouldn't be spending so much time on a site called ClutchCity if we did. ------------------
But where is Minnesota going to get those one or two players? They can't draft them, they don't have picks. They don't have picks or trade bait to get the players, and they don't have cap space. The Rockets have all of that, and their nucleus is much younger then the T-Wolves. Keep this in mind, the Rockets are rebuilding, and have been racked with injuries all year, yet they are hanging with Minnesota. The T-Wolves have gradually gotten worse over the last few years, and the Rockets have gotten better since last year, ------------------ Meow!
the T-Wolves will replenish their roster with their exceptions and minimum signings. That sounds lame, but it's true. This year they signed Laphonzo Ellis, Chauncy Billups and Felipe Lopez. All decent players, all without any cap space to work with. Yes, the Rockets have the cap space to backup their fantastic guard duo (depending on what they do with Dream/Mo), but the T-Wolves have shown the ability to attract talent, regardless of the weather or 'small market' label, or any other reason people use to bash that team. ------------------
RocksMillenium -- you forgot Bonzi Wells in Portland. Axeman -- I don't see what you're crowing about honestly... took until the end of the season to show the Rockets weren't going to make it. You were right though, and remember, after we signed Mo Taylor, <a href="http://www.clutchcity.net/poll_results.cfm?PollIDView=13">85% thought we'd make the playoffs</a>. Also, regarding how good Mobley/Francis can be, I never in a million years thought a team led by Allen Iverson (and just Iverson for that matter) would have the best record in the league. Still seems silly to me. He's improved by leaps and bounds in his first 5 years in the league -- and that's mostly improvement in regards to attitude and NBA-smarts. Both Rockets guards are only going to get better, stronger, smarter and more respect from the refs. However since you just said the Rockets won't make the playoffs until 2005, I'm sure people will hold you to that as you held them to "they will make the playoffs this year" comments. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET [This message has been edited by Clutch (edited April 03, 2001).]
I'm not sure this is the way to go. ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
No, it's not the way to go. But considering that's the T-Wolves only real option, that's the way they'll have to go. Garnett's NOT being traded, and he'll be eating up almost half of their salary cap. ------------------
let's look at our Nucleus Steve and Cuttino - Nuff Said Moochie and Colson - we will resign them I think Moochie IS the best backup in the league ONLY BOBBY JACKSON IN SAC is equal [then again I think of bobby as a starter ;-) ] KT and Moe - Both are getting better [I say resign moe] Collier - was coming along well HIGHLY underrated He won't win you many games but I don't think he'll lose you many either [SEE CATO] Langhi is a yet to be seen Rocket River ------------------ [This message has been edited by Rocket River (edited April 03, 2001).]
You can't predict any team. Look at the bulls. They were the very top and the next year, they were at the very bottom. Who would have predicted we would have gotten Francis with a few scrubs? It takes time and talent. Look at Utah, they have not had any major new stars in years. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
You're right Clutch, I forgot all about Bonzi Wells. I have to agree to a degree with Portland then, they do have a core of younger players to develop, a PG, a SG and PF, as long as Sheed keeps his attitude in check. Of course Stoudamire has to be disgruntled with the constant trade rumors, and the signing of Strickland, who is going to jail for 10 days by the way. ------------------ Meow!
