Anyone else find it odd, that.....

DaDakota, I couldn't have said it any better.

Everybody wants to see Francis go for 30pts. However,that would not be in the best interest of the TEAM. The best Basketball the Rockets have played this year have come in the last 2 weeks. They have been working the ball around for good percentage shots and just look more TEAM oriented. Now if we can just get this commitment on TEAM Defense there is no telling how far this team can go.

 

yesh...i'm in full agreement with DaDakota.

"Anyone else find it odd"

Hey, I finally found out that the ISO play is indeed called Two Shakes. I moved down to glorious row 8 last night and could overhear Rudy call for "Two Shakes" and give a shaking two-finger signal. I saw about 6 iso's run...only 2 called for Mobley. And we dominated as you said.

Yesh...less 3 ptrs and less ISOs is something I want to see us strive for. To add to your comments DaDakota, I'd like to say that the guard-oriented motion game we like to see is rare in this league, and we should brag about being able to play it, versus complaining we don't do it, like it's some offense you can pour out of a can.

A full motion offense (to include weakside flexing) within the limits of a 24-second clock will require great coaching, excellent team chemistry, and outstanding guard play. Look throughout the league and tell me the teams who don't rely on combinations of outside shooting and ISOs, and who uses other offenses successfully. We would be in rare company to play this way on a regular basis. When it happens, and this game is the best example I've seen to date, let's brag about it. It is quite an achievement to run motion in the NBA with the shot-clock and with stars who believe than can simplify the Xs and Os with ISOs. This is much different than college where we expect motion offenses.

We have the guards to do it, and we have the team commitment. They will be fun to watch, if we can play motion like this on a regular basis. I think we are headed in the right direction.

Could we even say that all those Two Shakes since Barkley went down are finally paying off by teaching us to do it sparingly? It served its purpose: taught us to be aggressive at driving into the lane, taught us to see what the game looks like from in the air, forced defenses to worry about it and practice for it, and now, the game is opening up and we don't need it as much. That's my dream take! I hope it's real.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2000).]

 

That's not an allusion to me, is it HeyPard?

But yeah, I think the frontcourt should be more involved in the game. Yeah, the backcourt is where the Rockets best players are, but they should find ways to a more involved "team" offense.

I am sort of glad though that they haVE had a chance to practice isos and other wacky guard plays, cuz at least they'll know more or less what to do when designed "team" plays break down and they have to improvise.

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Is it any coincidence that the Wizard has a NBA team named after him? Or that that team is owned by evil incarnate Jordan?

I don't think so ...

[This message has been edited by CriscoKidd (edited April 02, 2000).]

 

Yes...a can of crisco is offensive to many.


Hey...right on about your take on practicing the ISO this year. We are beginning to see signs that it was indeed just practice and not the full Rudy game plan. All I can say is "Whew". If we really did continue featuring ISOs as our main offense, I'd have to leave clutchcity before I became a Rudy basher again.

Remember after Barkley went down and everyone said "Let's experiment. Let the guards play." But then we bashed Mobley and Rudy to death for doing just that. That hypocracy is the main reason I've taken Mobley's side on this bbs, even when I hated the play as well. I think we can say now that we got what we wished for, and it will help us learn how (and when) to "improvise" (as you said).

 

DaDakota,

I think we've had this discussion about the definition of "guard-oriented offense". Let me back away from that, cause it is kinda misused. I only use it because other's do on this board. What I mean is your second paragraph exactly. (I actually said guard-oriented motion offense.)

That description really is a Motion offense. For instance, the Triangle is a modified Flex Motion. (Really, I think it is a poorly designed one that is overly simplified to exploit superstars. It is rather limited in its flexibility, because it puts two many people on the same side of the court too often.) but I digress.

I use the term guard-oriented offense, but would rather say an NBA Flex. You implement that, and you don't need this PF superstar you ask for. Nor do you need ISOs anymore than Utah or the Pistons needed them. I keep bringing up the Pistons. Sure, getting a tall player who is a better scorer than Francis would be groovy, but we can still win a title with great Motion, led by great guards and role-playing front court...as long as we have superior defense.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2000).]

 

I'm hoping Rudy develops a new offensive scheme to fit our players.

Look at what the Triangle did for Chicago and now for LA. Offenses have to be revolved upon where your strengths are, and as of right now, here are the facts: We have 2 young back court players (Francis and Mobley) who can do amazing things with the ball, and can both shoot outside, cut, and finish the play. Both also have some PG experience. You have another swingman (Shandon) who, while not as playground crazy as Mobley and Francis, can score inside and and out, and does the little things-offensive rebounding, starting/finishing the break, etc., Kenny Thomas is a little undersized for a PF, but has some good post up skills, and likes shooting from the outside (though he misses far too much) He's also young and runs the floor. Kelvin Cato is a presence down low, just needs to tune up his moves. Loves garbage finishing, and can run the floor.

So basically, we have a fast moving team, with 3 inside and outside players, and 2 post up guys. I sense some sort of motion offsense, hopefully Rudy wil pull something out. Don't forget to add the draft pick to the mix as well.

(Note: I assume Walt will either be off the bench, or on another team, because SA will be a starter for sure, and if we resign Mobley, which I hope, he'll likely be a starter.)

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I just hope we win games. They can flex, move, gyrate, do the Whop, the Cabbage Patch and form all kinds of polygon offenses... hell man, let's run the damn dodecagon offense with a modified nonagon twist bisected by a tangent off the golden triangle sitting in a rhomboid for backup. It doesn't mean squat until we get players. Players we don't have at the moment. As far as I'm concerned, our backcourt is set; we are loaded in the backcourt. We need another good power forward (most glaring need) or small forward that fits into the athletic mould of the team Rudy's building. Hopefully the lottery or free-agency can bring that; maybe even a trade. With some experience and a bit more talent, this team has the makings of a solid starting crew with a very solid bench. We're so freakin' close... arrrgg!

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<this space for rent>

 

"Doesn't mean squat until you get players." So, maybe I should just squat on the toilet and wait for a player movement.

Dr...Did you really say installing an offense doesn't mean squat until a year or 2 when we have better players and more experience? And we call you a Dr!?

Talking about plays and player execution is the funnest thing about basketball to some, because it is about what you see. Unlike discussing never-ending dream trade scenario's that will deliver the players you require to conjur up images of winning, like we're selecting a team with a Playstation controller and our offense comes off a menu. "Means squat." bwah. Sometimes this bbs drivels up into dry beds of cynicism. But not me. The Motion offense and the ISO experiments are what have you believing we are so close to success, not the level of our talent as compared to say: Milwaukee & New Jersey, or, hehe Vancouver and their glorious guards and star forwards!! Where's Allen/Cassell/Robinson and Marbury/Van Horn and Bibby/Dickerson/Shareef getting them. We have an offensive scheme started in December, showed its muscle in January, took a setback with the NBA-defense clamp-down in February, and has risen to another level today as we learned from failure. Get used to it Doc, we're going to talk about the Motion as it unravels, with or without your wisecrack laughtrack.

Here look Doc, I found a Cheeto in the couch for you to munch on.

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2000).]

 

I take the fun out of talking about the game? Good grief man, look at some of your posts and then visit the CC readers in the coma unit of the nearest hospital. Just because some of the people in here enjoy talking about trade possibilities and player movements doesn't mean they're any less of a basketball fan than His Air[headed]ness. Just as you have as much right to post your playbook online, they/we have as much right to talk trades.

Regarding this bbs turning into a dry bed of cynicism, that's just part of being a fan my friend. For those of you that think people saying "we suck and we need to do this and that" is not part of being a fan, think again. Those of us that still show up on the BBS or in the game chat, but are still pissed at the Rockets moving "down" in the lottery still give a flip about the team. Cynicism is not bad. Part of being a fan is being cynical. If you are never cynical as a fan, then you're just a team-flag-waving moron that can't think objectively. And of course, by "you" I don't mean "you" specifically. There are times I hate what the Rockets do/don't do, but I still consider myself a cynical fan.

As for me being called a "Dr.", as a Dr-wannabe, I suggest you pull the plug on the one brain cell you have left, 'cause life-support on it ain't workin'. If you can't
understand that it's just a nick... then, well... maybe you're just trying to show wit. Try again.

The fact of the matter is, you can analyze till the cows come home. Like when you were sitting there analyzing how Mobley's misses actually resulted in something good happening. It's called "paralysis by analysis". It's the same way stats and statistical analysis only show part of the story about any player and can't ultimately be relied upon to make decisions. Anyone could see you can't absolutely predict the outcome of an event if you can't predict the initial event. Your points were pointless in that sense. While cause and effect aren't necessarily linear, the rationalizations some of you were coming to were beyond belief. There was one thing and one thing only about Mobley that made him suck. His FG% and his FG selection. I don't care if every miss he had led to a Rocket rebound, you can't predict that in an offense. Period.

Didn't mean to get your panties in a wad, but when you go off on people that "bore" you with their trade talk, then you better be prepared to understand not everyone wants to have every thread turned into a playbook and be every insomniac's dream. The fact is, many of us grew up trading basketball, baseball, and football cards. Many of us like to play fantasy sports because we CAN make those player trades. Most of us grew up around playgrounds without "playbooks" and haven't had the privilege of being ummm... "highly basketball educated". That makes no one less and no one more on this BBS. To each his own, but to each "be wary" because knocking a group of people for boring you on the BBS means you're just as susceptible to criticism. That being said, your analysis of games is good, your analysis of plays is well-thought-out, but pardon us if we don't genuflect in your visage as "we be but peons in da realm of hoopdom".

HeyPee... thanks for the Cheeto. Now fire up a Flash animation again, we're having problems getting topics to talk about in the channel chat without mentions of ISO's, punctuation, flex, etc.

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<this space for rent>

 

Finally, got Doc to show some passion instead of laughtracks.

Doc...what's with the big schpiel, like I'm attacking you. I'm having fun in this thread. I know your nickname is a joke. You are one of the funniest posters I've seen anywhere. What I don't get is why you can't let me talk about offense without intruding for no apparent reason other than to show you have a problem with it.

Don't turn this panties in a wad thing on me...look at your post man! If dry beds of cynicism for some reason hit a nerve in you, don't take it personally, cause I'm just playing with words here and having fun with them. Writing is my hobby and so is BBall. I have no privilege knowledge of basketball. I stare at it; marvel at it; used to play it; read about it; listen to people; and ultimately talk about it.

Surely you have it in yourself to let me express myself in a way you sometimes don't like or think is egotistical or something. But don't give me no more snide drivel like you need to put me in my place or something. Stick to the humor. You wear it better.

Attack me if you want...I don't mind. Just don't get upset about it if I you get playful volley's in return. Man...I consider it a moment to remember to have received such a scathing post from you.

I thought the Cheeto comment was supposed to be the tongue-in-cheek signal from you. Maybe I should learn the smiley faces afterall.

 

Now back to topic. You mentioned Mobley rationalizations. DoD. All I ever did was ask people to allow for Mobley to experiment. I seriously can't follow your rant about "analyzing cows". I look at it as watching and reporting. I also wanted to describe how Rudy rates his plays. My non-linear rationalization, or whatever you call it, is an attempt to show how Rudy rationalizes it. I have the advantage of being in Houston, hearing Rudy talk and reading all his quotes. I'm just passing it on. Several people from out of town and out of the country have asked me to keep posting about the plays. I have fun doing, so I will. Plus, my buddies with tickets,,,this is what we talk about, man. Sorry, you think it is stupid. Sorry, you think my "I'll challenge that comment" approach to posting is egotistical.

I wish there were more posters that would say I'm wrong for such-and-such a reason. I wish there was someone here who has taught a Flex Motion. Then we could have really analyze till the cows come home. But here, you're just saying I suck, with no on-topic comments except to say I over-analyze (which really means I analyze something you don't). If you can't understand why I choose to measure my favorite team by watching the progress of their plays versus what other teams are doing, don't say it "means squat". That was so lame of you.

DoD, you got a problem with me or my personality. I can't figure it out. But, I can't do anything about it either. But give me the courtesy by at least looking me "in the eye" so to speak and keeping it on a one-on-one level, rather than adding a bunch of "we"s and "us"s for some type of personality-castrating ostracism.

good grief (is that an oxymoron?)


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited April 02, 2000).]

 

Oh man, a new rivalry in the BBS!!!! I've been waiting for one.

 

You want a rivalry Bob. I'm lit up with caffiene and a new DSL line. I don't think DaDakota's going to get me in bed anytime soon (with or without supper). You and I can start another rivalry right now...DoD is too elusive with his humor for clean jabs anyhow.

*

 

heypartner,

In regards to your statement about the offense bogging down in February.

"We have an offensive scheme started in December, showed its muscle in January, took a setback with the NBA-defense clamp-down in February, and has risen to another level today as we learned from failure."

Some of the problem in February was adjusting to Dream playing again. With Dream out again, they have adjusted again and gotten back on the track they were on in December and January. Whether Dream was accomplishing much on the court is a different issue. Continuity of minutes and plays ran probably means quite a bit to the players.

Mango

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It could be worse ....... you could have been born a Jazz fan!!!!

 

Yeah...I posted once about worrying whether Dream could help when he came back. I said something like he's the worst passer on the team, so we can't run any motion offense through him. I expected his defense to make up for it, though.

But the main problem in February, IMO, was the trapping defense on Stevie, effectively stopping him from running the January plays we got good at. The NBA effectively said after we beat Portland, Miami and LA, "Oh yeah Rockets, try doing it without Francis".

I also didn't mean to imply December was a good month for us. Just that that was when the evolution began. Certainly when the massive amounts of Two Shakes experimentation started, and when some of the pre-season plays started getting installed.

 

heypartner,

It seems that on several occasions, Dream would drop down to his familar left block while they were trying to run another type of play. The rest of the team would adjust and run "Dream Low Post" even when they were supposed to do something else.

I agree about the trapping of Francis in February, but they probably would have made adjustments for the traps sooner if they weren't having to adjust for Dream at the same time. Too many issues at the same time.

Mango

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It could be worse ....... you could have been born a Jazz fan!!!!

 

Wow!!
I just read through this entire thread... some most interesting observations...

Of course I want to come back to this one:
DaDakota said:
I have never liked a guard oriented offense. I still say to be a real contender, your best player needs to be taller then 6' 3".

Well then it's settled. Let's get rid of Francis, then our best player is over 6'3 (be it Anderson or Williams or Cato or Thomas or even Mobley or Bullard !)

On a more serious note, I'm looking forward to how our vaunted offense performs against a team that gives a damn -remember the TWolves game.. the only one of the last 5 against a team playing for a purpose.. sure Walt was out... but I'm just a little cautious about slobbering at the mouth about the rockets new found offensive panache until I see it destroy a quality opposition.
Sorry for being a pessimist all - but I think it's realistic to see how long this streak lasts for!




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