Any thoughts>>

You really think Sprewell and Houston have been overachieving?

 

I wish there was some way in hell he could be a "defensive coordinator" of sorts for us.

 

I've thought about this quite alot over the course of this season. Then, I heard the comments of several radio commentators back about a month ago and I realized they were right.

They said that Rudy T. had been praised before, during and after the Rockets won championships for not just getting the most out of players, not just convincing them to believe in the system and team but for his ability to create strong defenses despite his love of offense as a player and his general lack of defensive teams.

One person, a national guy, said that Rudy did what all great coaches do. He made the best of a bad situation. A caller asked them if they thought that Rudy T. was in trouble because of the record this year and they said that, while wins and losses are tough, any team that was without two of their top 3 scorers for the majority of the year (plus another potential big scorer in Rice) would be lucky to win close to the number of ballgames the Rockets have.

One of them pointed out that the best way to measure a coach's ability in a situation like ours is to guage the team to see if the players are giving up. They said that is obviously not the case.

 

This is only semi-related to the thread, but it is something that has bothered me. You rarely see coaches take lesser jobs. This is true especially in football. Usually you get to be a head coach by proving yourself as a great offensive or defensive coordinator. Many time guys who were great coordinators fail miserably as head coaches. What do the do afterwards? Go back to a job that they were great at? Nope.

Anyway, I think that Van Gundy could add a lot to any coaching staff, but I doubt that you'll see that happen. Once you've been a head coach you probably get used to the power and can't readjust to being on someone's coaching staff.

As for overachieveing guards.... I think I'll take the other thread with Avery Johnson as the PG coach.

 

milo: Van Gundy didn't survive in NY because he couldn't coach win the big game. Just the nature of it.

The problem with the Rockets combines the health of the players and the fact that most of them are still very young. It took Hakeem nearly 10 years to learn to trust his teammates and play within a system.

The team WAS successful last year under Rudy and without Hakeem for most of it. This year, they are 2-19 when Steve Francis doesn't play, meaning they are 17-16 with him in the lineup. Now, assuming they would at least be .500 (plus the two wins) if Francis had played in those 21 games (I'll even subtract one of those wins), they would be 28-26 (17-16 plus 11-10, the adjusted record minus Francis' injuries). I think it is fair to assume that they could go .500 in the games Francis missed, many of which were against lotter teams.

If they were 28-26, that would make them currently tied for the 8th playoff spot. I would also have to believe that a healthy Mo Taylor, Walt Williams and Glen Rice would each account for a win or two even with the emergence of Kenny Thomas and surprising if inconsistent play of Eddie Griffin.

So, take away the injuries and you have, very likely, a playoff calliber team. Last year, most analysts believed the Rockets over-achieved. They fell short of the playoffs depsite having the best record of any non-playoff team since the modern playoff format was set up. Despite losing their best player for nearly half the season (including several intermittant stretches which is harder on a team because of the lack of continuity it creates), their third leading scorer for the year, two valuable contributors for most of the season and playing a number of rookies (including a 19-year-old) big minutes, the Rockets have still managed to win 19 games and be in almost every game they play in the 4th quarter.

To me, that is just as impressive as a playoff run.

 

VERY VERY VERY unrelated to the thread, but Jeff can you explain your signature - 665: Neighbor of the Beast. I mean I get it, but I don't understand why you think it'd be a good sig.

Anyway, I still have confidence in Rudy T. And if you want to give up on him, I'd love to see him on a memphis sideline. Jeff Van Gundy seems to me not nearly the coach rudy is and was.

 

I found it on a website - www.coolsig.com - and thought it was funny. Ironically, I was just changing it when you asked.

 

How about ... Jerry Sloan? What could he do with Francis, Mobley, Griffin, et al? Don't you think he moves on when Stockton retires?

 

Hmmm... perhaps I can add a new Rockets fan perspective. I moved here from GSW-land, and I have seen a whole slew of coaches over the past eight years (coinciding with the "Dark Ages of Cohan"), alternating between hands-off to "in-your-face", alternating between offensive-minded to defensive-minded. I can assure you that what the Rox have is something special. I know Rudy T would get snapped up by some smart owner in seconds if the Rox were to let him go.

He has shown an ability to change styles (from the low-post Dream and Barkley styles to the current guards-oriented play) and for the most part been very successful doing so. He is also very respected by players and the rest of the league. Trust me... these are important.

Weakness.. sure, he has them. He seems better at reacting to other teams strategies (eg lineups) than at forcing other teams to play his (compared to someone like Nellie), but much like a boxer you can be successful as a "counterpuncher". And I would agree his ideas seem more offesnive-minded than defensive.

Perhaps bringing in a new assistant that was a "defensive specialist" might be a good idea (I would have guessed Larry Smith is the team's defensive specialist but perhaps he just focuses on "big men"?). And while Van Gundy said he would consider an assistant position I don't think he will have to (I suspect he will get plenty of HC offers... I know GSW would offer him if he would accept that mess).

Just my 2 cents...

 

I think we should get Rudy help too, but everybody here is so RUDY-WHIPPED, every time you bring it up,they cry.If you guys think someone we bring in is a threat to Rudys job, well Rudy would be the one giving him reason to.I personally think Rudy can get a lot out of his guys,BUT,I do believe he is outdated.Think if Rudy would run more plays with movement &substance we would have a better shot everynight.You coach first, athletic mismatch second.I think Rudy hasn't caught on to the new NBA style that's why he can't coach DEFENDING it.He needs help pure and simple!

 

I hate that weak-ass Rudy apologist crap. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, we disagree. Maybe some of us actually think Rudy might be a good coach. We aren't just blindly accepting anything.

Maybe, there are people who are placing blame on the coach (or one player) because they want to. Maybe there are Rudy hatas too! Maybe the only reason you want him gone is because you love Pat Riley. Sound stupid? It is.

I made a fairly logical case for why I think the team has struggled in this very thread yet no one has even bothered to address it. All we get is "everybody here is so RUDY-WHIPPED, every time you bring it up, they cry."

God forbid their problems be related to youth, injuries or lack of chemistry due to everything from the aformentioned items to lack of practice time to whatever. Obviously, it HAS to be the coach, or is it Mobley or maybe Francis? No, it's the system. No, it's that Griffin doesn't get enough minutes.

Good grief. Maybe, it is a combination of a lot of things. But, for Pete's sake, don't say Rudy is a good coach. You might just be kissing his ass!

 

<B>If they were 28-26, that would make them currently tied for the 8th playoff spot. I would also have to believe that a healthy Mo Taylor, Walt Williams and Glen Rice would each account for a win or two even with the emergence of Kenny Thomas and surprising if inconsistent play of Eddie Griffin.
</B>

So with everyone healthy, we'd be just a bit worse than last year's team (which also had major injury issues)? That's not a real good situation.

Seriously, though -- my main problem with Rudy is his either inability or refusal to encourage or force team basketball. I don't agree with his "they'll learn" philosophy because it doesn't appear that they do. Two coaches / teams that stick out this year in my mind: Texas Tech and the NJ Nets. The former has a lack of talent and was, in one off-season, able to implement an incredible team-oriented game that has destroyed much more talented teams. The NJ Nets had massive injury problems and their new coach and PG were able to create chemistry instantly, even those these players had not played together much at all (KVH, Martin, and Kittles being injured and Kidd being new, plus 3 rookies).

Those two scenarios demonstrate that you CAN force team ball and you CAN teach it quickly. Sure, those are spectacularly outstanding coaches / PG's, but it seems we haven't even made an attempt in that direction. I don't believe that an ISO-offense can ultimately be successful in the NBA anymore. Sure, it may get you wins in the regular season when it's something unique that other teams aren't used to, but when teams have time to prepare just for your one team and see you in 4-7 games straight, I think it can be more easily countered and stopped. I don't think this current offensive scheme has much long-term potential. And on the defensive end, it's all about effort. Yes, it's the players' responsibility to play hard, but it's also the coaches' responsibility to motivate AND use tools at his disposal for that. When Rudy rewards the offensive-minded players the playing time regardless of their defense, he's signalling that he cares more about offense than defense.

I don't think Rudy necessarily needs to be fired -- no coach is perfect. However, I do think he needs to make some changes, and some (especially on the defensive end) can be made quite easily.

 

I don't know how anyone can blame Rudy for the record this team has . I'm pretty sure if they were injury free we would be one of the top 6 playoff teams. You can't fire coach when half his squad is on the injured list. That being said, if the rockets could get Van Gundy as a type of def. coordinator like kidrock8 said , i think that would be great.

 

I don't disagree with your premise (although college hoops and pro are very different games and Bobby Knight may be able to scream and moan at the college kids, but it wouldn't work in the pros) but I think there is more at work here.

I agree that the offense should be more diverse. I agree there should be more effort on defense. But, I also think there issues that go beyond the ability to fix.

Having injuries is tough. Having them hit you at game time is tougher. Imagine you just got in two great practices with all your guys and your game plan has 15 different offensive schemes and 8 different defesnive schemes. Of those 15 offensive, 8 are predicated on a specific player and on defense, 2 are. Now, if that player goes down right before the game with a migraine, you not only limit the ability to utilize the whole playbook, but the other plays immediately become less effective because you go to second and third string players to carry them out.

That is the biggest problem. It is bad enough losing Francis (we saw what that did) but losing him right before a game is a killer because it alters everything the team does.

I agree that there are problems with the team but I see them a little differently. For me, I think the GM will have a tougher time than the coach over the next two seasons. Besides the obvious need to sign Francis, there is a glut at power forward and a gaping hole at small forward that was supposed to be filled with Rice (that sounded funny. ).

Until they see exactly how Taylor and Rice are on the floor, they will be hard pressed to make moves to improve the team and they will have to improve. As is, this team, IMO, isn't talented enough to compete in the West. I think that Francis, Mobley and Griffin go a long way to helping but they have to have depth at the center position that they can count on and they need A small forward rather than a bunch of mediocre guys who are interchangable.

Plus, even if Taylor and/or Thomas stay, they are going to have to decide on what to do with them and Griffin.

The combination of Griffin's development, Taylor and Rice's injuries, Thomas' availability, Francis' re-signing and the gaping hole at small forward all seem to me to be fairly significant issues even in the short term.

 

<B>Having injuries is tough. Having them hit you at game time is tougher. Imagine you just got in two great practices with all your guys and your game plan has 15 different offensive schemes and 8 different defesnive schemes. Of those 15 offensive, 8 are predicated on a specific player and on defense, 2 are. Now, if that player goes down right before the game with a migraine, you not only limit the ability to utilize the whole playbook, but the other plays immediately become less effective because you go to second and third string players to carry them out. </B>

I agree with this -- and understand that we're going to lose. I'm not particularly concerned with the W/L record, but more the fact that we don't seem to be making any progress. When we were without Francis during the foot injury, we simply couldn't adjust to anything.

On the example you described above with 15 offensive plays, and 8 being predicated on a specific player -- that's my problem. We shouldn't be running plays only Francis is capable of running. Sure, he should be better at running the plays (because he has more natural ability and athleticism), but we should be able to run the same basic plays with Moochie. And those plays should each have 2-4 options, some of which should still be available.

I think one area where you can see the change in team vs. individual focus is last-second shots (and we've had a lot of them this year). This year, every game, Moochie, Mobley, or Francis will get a play run for them and one of them will take the last shot no matter what kind (good or bad). In our previous years, any number of people would take last shots -- the stars (Hakeem, Drexler, Barkley) or virtually any role players (Horry, Elie, Cassell, Smith, Maxwell). I don't recall seeing KT, Mo Taylor, Griffin, Walt, etc get last-second shots. Part of it is a trust issue (Moochie only gets the plays because he earned it), which is understandable -- to a point. However, after 3 years for Francis and Mobley, they really need to start trusting teammates more and playing more team basketball. The other part, though, is it almost seems that all of plays are designed for 1 or maybe 2 options at most. That puts too much pressure on an individual player, I think.

It might not be that Rudy's a bad coach, just that he's more of a veteran's coach than a young player's coach. He believes more in the "give them time, let them figure it out" philosophy than the "teach them" philosophy (this is similar to the Dierker-Jimy Williams difference as well). Or maybe (hopefully) it really is just the injuries. We'll find out next year, hopefully.

 

See, I'm not sure you can make the determination that he is a "they will learn" coach. I just don't think that we have guys who have enough experience to say, "Well, they just haven't learned." We could go either way on Mobley but the rest of them have either been in the league under 3 years or have VERY little experience in the 4 or 5 years they have been here.

Now, if we are still sitting at this point in '03-'04, then there may be cause for concern.

 

<B>See, I'm not sure you can make the determination that he is a "they will learn" coach. I just don't think that we have guys who have enough experience to say, "Well, they just haven't learned." We could go either way on Mobley but the rest of them have either been in the league under 3 years or have VERY little experience in the 4 or 5 years they have been here.</B>

Maybe so, and maybe my expectations are way too high. But we've seen it many times before that young teams still learn to play team basketball. Doc River's first Orlando team was all draft picks and scrubs and played the ultimate team basketball. NJ has an array of young players (KVH, Martin, MacCallough, 3 rookies) along with two older guys (Kidd/Kittles) and they do it. The older Minnesota teams were a much younger Garnett & Marbury with crap around them. The '95 Orlando team has young Shaq & Penny leading them. I certainly don't expect our team to be as good as these guys -- especially considering the injuries -- but all of those teams had young stars who bought into the team concept and were successful. Like them, we have some veteran role players (Willis, Williams, Rice) to provide guidance even if not effective on the court.

I just feel like the last 3 years we've really gone in circles in terms of on-court play. We were supposed to be young, exciting and energetic. Yet we're young, slow, and bad to be blunt. We don't ever push the ball (which could have and should have been learned over the last 3 years). We keep changing the players but seem to take a step forwards and a step backwards. I think Rudy *should* have one more year to really turn it around but am guessing he will have at least two no matter what.

 

I'm thinking further ahead than right now Jeff.I don't see the plays most teams have.What Rudy has to wait for MoT and Rice to get back before he can create better plays for that position? We are lucky we have guys that can create their shots or our record would be worse than it is now, but you have to have a system that benefits everyone.Iso's and a pick and rolls are not a whole system.I'm starting to see the olympic team in ours, Rudys team was full of one on one, and I know those guys didn't have practices either, but I just don't see movement.And I think that movement is the basis of a system that would create more mismatches for athleticism to take over.I want to see a system our guys can brag about!The fact is if we don't get that in here, we will not progress, our team will only go so far, and guys like Steve may leave!What is it going to take when the injured are back and we keep running into the same problems?I hope you are right and the system we have will work, but I don't see how we can be happy with a system where besides Francis nobody else fits into it.