One thing I have been mulling over since JVG was hired has been how he will transform the defense. I have thought of a few things, and several schemes have gone through my mind, but one which, however unlikely, keeps popping up is pressing and trapping. Think about our defensive assets vs. our defensive weaknesses; Assets: Quickness, speed, youth, two centers who can handle starter minutes, and a bucket load of swingmen. Weaknesses: Size and strength everywhere but center, toughness, and fundamental defenders. So what don't we want to happen on defense: We don't want teams to be able to key on Griffin or Taylor and just pound it inside, we don' want teams to go strongside in the halfcourt and post Steve or Cat, we don't want Yao sitting on the bench because he's fouling out trying to cover our man to man weaknesses in the set. Obviously we will have to do that some of the time, but I say that an objective look at our strengths and weaknesses suggests that an on-off press option call would be a very logical step. Not all the time, but a lot more than average...we are young, and should therefore be able to out run most teams...we are small, so this forces the action and avoids defenses being able to count on setting up in the halfcourt and keying on our weaknesses...Even our weakest defenders, Steve in particular, have the outstanding quickness and stamina to be very effecitve press defenders if they are allowed to commit. The obvious Achilles heel is Yao, or specifically his endurance, but if we run a variation press, where he just sets up as the goaltender while the perim defenders harry the ball and the lanes ( again, not all the time) his presence alone will lead even those opportunities the offense gets when they break the press to pull up, and we could do it a lot when Cato is in; he can run all day. It would also afford the aggressive defensive mindset JVG craves, and create turnovers that he loves. It goes against soem of the priorities he showed in New York; fundamental man defesne, but it's different personel, and the zone rules have made their prescence felt...so maybe pressing into a box and 1, or something like that. Thoughts?
Uh huh...we will probably do what you described. We did have a bit of a full court press according to reports during the Summer League. Yao will be our goalie...Francis and Mobley should try to force more turnovers but prevent their man from getting past them with the ball....Mobley can do it. Both Griffin's are good defenders. Piatkowski and Rice are hopeless on defense...let them guard the worst opposing player. Taylor has decent defense and can cover most people 1 on 1 besides Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki and maybe Kevin Garnett. I think we will be Top 5 in points allowed, steals, least fouls, opposing team field goal percentage, forced turnovers, and defensive rebounds. Francis 37/Moochie 11 Mobley 36/Piatkowski 12 Griffin 20/Rice 18/Piatkowski 10 Griffin 23/Taylor 25 Yao 35/Cato 13 Since our team will be pretty tired.....and I bet the opposing team will be very very tired from our new defense and great offense...we should use zone defense more. Francis, Mobley, Yao, Griffin, and Griffin...all good defenders if they try. Rice is slow but he is all right at defense (just please no more posting up or trying to drive...) Piatkowski is unknown. Taylor and Cato can both play defense. Moochie will be new and improved! I'm not too worried about our defense.....I am more worried about our offense. It seems like you would like the Rice and Nachbar for Eddie Jones trade. "Statistics are used as support for an argument. They are not the argument. They are used, like light, to make something easier to see. The Rockets were a good defensive team this past season because of Yao, Griffin, Cato and Posey. Cat and Steve were adequate but not great defenders. Mo, Moochie and Rice can't defend anyone. Because of our big men, the Rockets were 5th in blocks per game, 6th in rebounds. We were 24th in steals. We were 28th in forcing turnovers. The latter shortcomings are due to Mobley, Moochie, Hawkins, and Rice not getting nearly enough steals and not playing defense well enough. The following players all got more steals per game than Mobley, and Mobley came into the league on the strength of his defense, and with his long arms, he should be getting two steals a game. 1. Allen Iverson ( Philadelphia 76ers) 82 225 2.74 2. Ron Artest ( Indiana Pacers) 69 159 2.30 3. Shawn Marion ( Phoenix Suns) 81 185 2.28 4. Doug Christie ( Sacramento Kings) 80 180 2.25 5. Jason Kidd ( New Jersey Nets) 80 179 2.24 6. Kobe Bryant ( Los Angeles Lakers) 82 181 2.21 7. Paul Pierce ( Boston Celtics) 79 139 1.76 7. Caron Butler ( Miami Heat) 78 137 1.76 9. Steve Francis ( Houston Rockets) 81 141 1.74 10. Jamaal Tinsley ( Indiana Pacers) 73 125 1.71 11. Karl Malone ( Utah Jazz) 81 136 1.68 12. John Stockton ( Utah Jazz) 82 137 1.67 13. Gary Payton ( Milwaukee Bucks) 80 133 1.66 14. Tracy McGrady ( Orlando Magic) 75 124 1.65 14. Darrell Armstrong ( Orlando Magic) 82 135 1.65 16. Bonzi Wells ( Portland Trail Blazers) 75 123 1.64 16. Aaron McKie ( Philadelphia 76ers) 80 131 1.64 18. Jerome Williams ( Toronto Raptors) 71 116 1.63 19. Eric Snow ( Philadelphia 76ers) 82 133 1.62 20. Nene ( Denver Nuggets) 80 127 1.59 21. Ricky Davis ( Cleveland Cavaliers) 79 125 1.58 22. Stephen Jackson ( San Antonio Spurs) 80 125 1.56 22. Jason Terry ( Atlanta Hawks) 81 126 1.56 24. Gilbert Arenas ( Golden State Warriors) 82 124 1.51 24. Brent Barry ( Seattle SuperSonics) 75 113 1.51 26. Michael Jordan ( Washington Wizards) 82 123 1.50 27. David Wesley ( New Orleans Hornets) 73 109 1.49 27. Antoine Walker ( Boston Celtics) 78 116 1.49 29. Andrei Kirilenko ( Utah Jazz) 80 118 1.48 30. Ben Wallace ( Detroit Pistons) 73 104 1.42 30. Alvin Williams ( Toronto Raptors) 78 111 1.42 32. Dirk Nowitzki ( Dallas Mavericks) 80 111 1.39 33. Latrell Sprewell ( New York Knicks) 74 102 1.38 33. Kevin Garnett ( Minnesota Timberwolves) 82 113 1.38 35. Ray Allen ( Seattle SuperSonics) 76 103 1.36 36. Stephon Marbury ( Phoenix Suns) 81 108 1.33 37. Shane Battier ( Memphis Grizzlies) 78 102 1.31 let me say that I sincerely believe Cat and Steve can both be in the top ten in the league in steals per game. they are already two of the best blocking guards in the league. they have to make it their priority. if JVG gets that out of them, their defense will be key to the success of this team. If our guards ever give us the tight defense our big men do, this team will rock. remember when Rudyball meant Dee-fense? Dream-OT-Horry-Elie on the floor at the same time. If Steve and Cat buy into the heavy D, they will gain stature in the league ala the backcourt of Detroit 15 years ago." Sorry Friendly Fan....your post was too great. I had to post it for you.
Other weaknesses include mental errors due to immaturity and a high turnover to assist ratio from the PG position. Moochie's got to distribute the ball better. Steve's got to take open shots. Concerning our swingmen, none are strong or good enough to start on most other teams. Our best position is Center. Yao and Cato are an excellent combo. Shooting Guard position---Mobley would be better coming off the bench. We could use another SG. Power forward---if both play how they are capable of playing then we have a great tandem.
I think from what I've read about Van Gundy and seeing him with the Knicks when I lived in NY, he will drill this team to death on getting back on the break, and beating the other team back on defense. The Knicks were a different make-up than this team, but he didn't press all that much. Even if all he does is get every single person on their team to concentrate on defense as much as they do on offense, boxout so the opponents don't get 2nd or 3rd chance opportunities then that's a start. I hated seeing blocked or changed shots last year rebounded and put back in by the other team. I also think with everyone putting more of their energy into defense that we are capable of great things. The Rockets Yao vs. Shaq(or the Stevie show for those who watched the game and not the hype) win over the Lakers saw Cat play probably the best defense he's ever played, and he took Kobe out of his game. IT was great to see. The thing is that watching the game Cat was really concentrating on it and putting all of his energy into that aspect of his game. If we could get that on a consistent basis, from Cat, Steve, and everyone else, we have the talent to go deep into the playoffs. I'd like to see movement in that direction.
Don't even think about pressing much when Francis and Mobley are both getting 40mpg, because we have no bench. This is one of the problems with retaining Posey at the expense of building a bench. Five starters is not enough to do all the things you might want to do on offense and defense. imo, we still need a real PG before we start thinking of making our guards play 40+ mpg while pressing on and off. so, no....I have no pressing thoughts beside continuing to build our bench strength with real, proven NBA players...whether they are 15mpg players, I don't care. I'm just tired of being forced to play rookies and 1yr guys and having fans screaming at the coach for (not so surprisingly) being unable to implement 48minutes of hell or 24 seconds of synchronized Xs and Os...and in the end it just results in 101 ways to skin a Cat...
like who? who can we find that brings his offensive and defensive talents for near the price (and isn't on a rookie contract that will balloon). a guy who plays all out, can score, plays D, and doesn't cost much is about as good as you can do i would think if you're planning on maxing out yao and steve.
who played D more consistently for the rockets last year than cuttino? steve, mooch, rice, tmo, yao, eg, and mo t certainly didn't. and posey didn't unless i ignore about the first 3 months he was here. the only two i can think of are cato and hawkins and neither had to do it for any stretch of time nor had to put forth energy to help us on offense. cuttino's D and effort on D are far too underrated on this board.
thanks! I agree with the thing Heypartner said about running the press and the wear it would place on Steve and Cat, already playing 83 mpg. I agree that part of the answer is a point guard who can play 16-18 mpg, and run the point for 10 minutes with Steve in the game. Mark Jackson might work. He wants to coach. He played for JVG. He is an excellent passer. I also think we still need help on defense in the 6'5 to 6'9 range, as we have no defense between Adrian Griffin's 6'5 and Eddie's 6'10. That is a hole Posey filled, and one we have yet to fix. I'm fixing a hole, where the points get in ...
I'm more optimistic than most about the Rockets capability to pressure the ball. The hidden advantage is that even if they don't force a lot of TO's with the pressure, the extra time off of the shot clock takes some pressure off of the front court. This helps our C's and PF's when they are being posted (less time to get position, less time for fancy low post moves, less time to kick out to a spot up shooter). IIRC, it was stated here that AGriff has long arms so perhaps he and a combination of 2 of Cat, Steve or Hawkins could make it work. Pressure definitely won't work with Rice or Moochie, but my jury is still out on Nachbar. I'll probably take some heat for this, but Piatkowski is not that bad a defender...so maybe. Anyone know...Does JVG like to play starters 40+ minutes? I for one hope not!
JVG is a Riley protege, and Riley is notorious for playing no under-developed yungins, thus making his starters play more. Sprewell and Houston averaged 40+ in the 1999 finals, and Larry Johnson got the call several times. For the next 3 yrs, Sprewell averages over 40mpg, and Houston had a 39mpg year in 2000. I think the better question is: Does JVG play guys who don't deserve the minutes, just to develop them? <b>Trivia 1</b> Has JVG ever started a rookie or 2nd yr player? <b>Trivia 2</b> Who is the last Knicks rookie to start more than 1/2 the games.
Adrian Griffin is a great defender of guys under 6'7. He's a hustler. He will help us to pressure the ball in transition. Adrian Griffin compared to Hawkins and Morris' numbers last year, as a way of showing he can play most of their minutes and a do a better job. Of course, a lot of Terence's minutes came at power forward, and Griffin wouldn't play those. But my point is that in his usual 18 minutes, he will produce as much as Morris and Hawkins did together in almost 25 minutes. He is a great rebounder and get a lot of steals for limited minutes. A worker. He makes this team better, if he stays healthy. ................mpg reb ast stl blk to pf pts Hawkins 11.8 1.30 .8 .50 .10 .50 1.00 2.3 Morris .. 12.9 2.60 .5 .16 .35 .59 .70 3.7 subtotal 24.7 3.90 1.3 .66 .45 1.09 1.70 6.0 Adrian.. 18.6 3.60 1.4 1.04 .08 .64 2.10 4.4 Griffin makes our 2/3 defense better.
Standard procedures: 1) Van Gundy comes up with the X & Os that maximizes the players ability on this team & develope a team oriented game. 2) Tranning camp starts & get players to implement these sets 3) Trial & error once the season starts 4) Trading away players who don't fit before trading deadline Ok, umm... pressing thoughts... Settling our guards situation as quickly as possible... the uncertainty of whether steve is best suited to be at 1 or 2 & determine whether the Francis/Mobley backcourt works well under van gundy... or shall we trade cat for other players...
I'm not at all worried about defense. In fact, I'm quite sure we'll be in the top 5 defensive teams if nothing changes. I'm just waiting for reports that Griffin has bulked up yet again, and just as much as last year, so that I can know for sure that we're going to be a superb defnsive team. Cat and Steve's quickness is a big factor on defense. Now Cat is a naturally good defender because of his long arms and quickness. However, Steve lacks the tools, fundamentals, and knowledge to play good D. However, I'm sure JVG will enhance his knowledge greatly, and will make use of his speed on defense. Once our defenders learn how to use help defense, and stay in front of their man rather than gamble, we'll be in great shape. I'm very confident in Griffin, Rice, and Pike's experience, and even though these guys aren't the greatest of defenders, they are smart players, and that will go a long way. Cato, Griffin, and Yao give us a tremendous inside presence defensively, and that will be the difference. Last year, we almost NEVER lost when blocking 8 shots or more, and that happened very often. Meaning, if griffin can bulk up enough and improve enough to earn more minutes, then that will inrease our blocks, and if Yao is in better shape and able to play more minutes, that will add to the blocks too. We're deep enough to run half court and full court presses without worrying about being tired or worn out. I think we will apply LOTS of pressure, and hopefully, JVG will teach them how to translate that into fastbreak points. What we should be worried about is points. We have two players who demand a double team, and 2 other VERY capable scorers (Mo and Cat). Aside from that, we have 2 3-pt specialists, and then there's Boki and Griffin. It sounds like MORE than enough firepower, but our offense seemed anemic and generally hopeless last season. I was completely shocked to see our FG% and overall offense be so poor. Do you guys think JVG will be able to improve on the offense, despite being a mainly defensive coach?
I've been trying to figure out where we are going. Piatkowski has to play at either the 2 or the 3 and he gets 22 mpg or more, probably. Adrian Griffin has to play at either the 2 or the 3, and he will probably get 18 mpg. Together that is 40 of the 96 minutes at the 2/3. If Cat gets another 42, that leaves 14 minutes for Rice at small forward. but that would leave NO minutes for Steve at shooting guard, and that can't be the plan. The plan has to be to bring in a real point guard to cover the 16 mpg Moochie has played. If so, then it would seem these minutes are committed: min 16 new pg a veteran playmaker 41 Francis shooting guard 9 mpg 20 A. Griffin guards shooting guards 22 Pike guards shooting guards 14 Rice tries to guard small forwards 31 new sf in trade for Cat, 6'8 starting sf with Defense mark jackson can probably be signed for the vet minimum I don't know who Cat could be traded for, but we seem set to make a move to trade him for a starting small forward. We've brought in two guys who can play his position 42 mpg.
Yeah, FB, the premise wasn't that JVG's history would indicate this, but that reason would. I said that JVG was using different personel in NY, most notably a defensive stopped on the perimeter, and toughness and size inside that we lack, so he could afford to play straight up more than we can at this stage. Unless Eddie has added 20 lbs of muscle, or Mo has added a backbobe, we have a huge defensive hole inside that can be exploited if the opposition can rely on us to play set. We also have other exploitable defensive weaknesses, namely the guards, especially if Steve is shifting to the 2. Prseeing would disrupt the oppoents ability to exploit those weaknesses, and even when we don't press their inability to know in advance whether we are or not going to press will disrout their offensive cohesion.
Don't expect much pressing defense if any at all. Expect- -Getting back fast on transition, not giving up easy points -More effort in the half court, not letting your man get away or your position -Better guard defense of the pick and roll, everyone runs some pick and roll and our guards are going to have to start fighting through those picks and distrupting the other teams schemes. The refs will put our guards in foul trouble unless they develop a defensive elite reputation where they are allowed to be more physical. If Yao and Griffin continue to develop as shot blockers, we may start taking a few more chances over playing the passing lanes. But Jeff Van Gundy will not tolerate defensive mental mistakes. I think that will be the biggest improvment. Alot of defensive success comes from a team concept that gets help where it is needed.
I agree with this post most of all. Last year our defense really wasn't that good, we were close to last in forced TOs and though we were like 5th in OFG the teams between like 5th and 20th were not that drastically different. The biggest change JVG can provide is helping make sure the guys bring aggressiveness and tenacity defensively or they find themselves on the bench. Also MacBeth, I take issue with the statement we are athletic. Our fontcourt is one of the most non-athletic, non-imposing in the league. Yao does a lot of things well for a our defense on ht alone but he isn't quick or strong in the upper body, EG is incredible weak for a 4, Mo is very slow for a 4 and all our guys we can play in the SF slot have serious exploitable deficiencies in strength, quickness and/or length. Cato provides a nice defensive presence--but if he is in Yao is out so that kind of is a wash. In sum there is only 2 real ways we can improve defensively--1 is attitude and team focus on defense brought on my JVG, 2 Progression by our young 4/5s where EG grows into a guy who in addition to providing the weak side off the ball presence can also handle most of the WC 4s pretty well by himself in the low block and Yao has substantial increase in stamina and upper body strength. We really will need our 4/5s to grow into players that can cover for the weak defense in our guards and swingmen (especially Mooch, SF, Pike, and Rice).
