I'm surprised these stories haven't been posted yet here. Let the mud slinging... er thoughtful insightful dialogue begin. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9463993/ Anti-war demonstrators stage day of protest Tens of thousands rally in marathon day of song, remembrance Updated: 2:29 p.m. ET Sept. 25, 2005 WASHINGTON - Crowds opposed to the war in Iraq surged past the White House on Saturday, shouting “Peace now” in the largest anti-war protest in the nation’s capital since the U.S. invasion. The rally stretched through the day and into the night, a marathon of music, speechmaking and dissent on the National Mall. Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey, noting that organizers had hoped to draw 100,000 people, said, “I think they probably hit that.” More at link. And.. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9478262/ Rally to support Iraq war draws hundreds Organizers had hoped for far larger response to Saturday’s D.C. protest Updated: 4:01 p.m. ET Sept. 25, 2005 WASHINGTON - Support for U.S. troops fighting abroad mixed with anger toward antiwar demonstrators at home as hundreds of people, far fewer than organizers had expected, rallied Sunday on the National Mall just a day after a massive protest against the war in Iraq. More at Link.
Well, I was going to post a new thread for this one, but since it's relative to the topic, let me just post it here... Question: Since we live in a democracy, is it prudent for our leaders to pursue 'unpopular' policies -- especially wars -- if the public is largely opposed to it? Or should our leaders have a mind of their own and do whatever they feel is the 'right thing' to do, even if it runs counter to the wishes of the majority? http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/22/iraq.poll/index.html Poll: Fewer than half think U.S. will win in Iraq More than half say country should speed up withdrawal WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll released Thursday indicated fewer than half of Americans believe the United States will win the Iraq war, and 55 percent of those surveyed said it should speed up withdrawal plans. Only 21 percent said the United States definitely would win the war in Iraq, which began when a U.S.-led coalition invaded in 2003 to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. Another 22 percent said they thought the United States probably would win. Twenty percent of respondents said the United States was capable of winning in Iraq -- but probably would not. And 34 percent said they considered the war unwinnable. The survey of 818 adults was conducted Friday through Sunday and had a sampling error of plus or minus 4 percentage points. The results followed others this week that found only 32 percent of those interviewed supported President Bush's handling of the war, 63 percent supported a full or partial withdrawal and and 54 percent favored cutting spending on the conflict to pay for rebuilding the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina. (Full story) With a large anti-war demonstration planned outside the White House this weekend, Bush said Thursday the United States can lose in Iraq only "if we lose our nerve and abandon the mission." "Some Americans want us to withdraw our troops so that we can escape the violence," Bush said. "I recognize their good intentions, but their position is wrong. Withdrawing our troops would make the world more dangerous and make America less safe." (Full story) More than 1,900 American troops have been killed since March 2003, most of them battling a persistent insurgency that followed the collapse of Saddam's government. With the number of deaths nearing 2,000, 55 percent of those surveyed said they wanted to see the United States intensify efforts to withdraw from Iraq, while 41 percent said they wanted no change in policy. The increased support for an American withdrawal from Iraq contrasts with the more than two-thirds of those polled who said they believed U.S. troops would leave behind a chaotic situation -- or even civil war. Only 27 percent said they believed Iraq's fledgling government would be able to maintain order after a U.S. withdrawal, while 68 percent said they believed chaos or civil war would result. By comparison, as the U.S. death toll in Iraq neared 1,000 in August 2004, only 37 percent favored an expedited withdrawal, and 58 percent supported staying the course. On Thursday, Bush tried again to portray Iraq as a front on the global war on terrorism that began with the attacks of September 11, 2001, saying a U.S. withdrawal would only embolden terrorists. He said the United States would pull its troops out only when Iraqi forces were capable of taking control of their own country. The number of people who said they understood what Americans are fighting for in Iraq has remained nearly steady in the past year. Of those polled, 67 percent said they understood what the war was all about, and 33 percent said they did not. The last time the question was asked, in October 2004, 70 percent said they understood what was at stake in the conflict while 28 percent said they did not. Bush and other officials argued that the invasion was necessary to strip Iraq of chemical and biological weapons and efforts to develop a nuclear bomb. U.S. inspectors later concluded Baghdad had disarmed after the 1991 Persian Gulf War, as required by U.N. resolutions that ended the conflict, though it had concealed some weapons-related research from U.N. monitors. The president and his allies now argue that U.S. troops are needed to foster the establishment of a democratic government in Iraq and keep the country from becoming a haven for terrorism. "Together, we'll help Iraq become a strong democracy that protects the rights of its people and is a key ally in the war on terror," Bush said. A report issued this month by a United Nations panel established to monitor al Qaeda and its associates said the terrorist group is exploiting the situation in Iraq, bringing in recruits from around the world and training them in urban warfare, bomb-making and other terrorist skills.
I for one would just like to take this time to salute our leadership for the job they have done. Only an odd hundred thousand have been killed thus far and I would wager that it won't be too much longer and maybe only a couple hundred thou more before all the oil is ours, every last drop of it. I salute the heads of ExxonMobil, Chevron, Unocal, British Petroleum, Royal Dutch, et al. These are the great minds and leaders marching our great nation forward in this blossoming 21st century. And I do not want to forget the little people behind the scenes as well, since it goes without mention that the boys at the White House and on Capitol Hill are helping in every way and doing their parts to make this whole mission a wonderful success for the American people, the Iraqi people, and the citizens of the World in general. This is no doubt one of our nation's finest hours and Happy Days are indeed here again. In fact I think I'm gonna go down to the local Mobil station and top off some neighbors' SUV's right now just for the hell of it.
I guarantee we will lose the war in Iraq unless we drastically change our game plan. It is not working. Bush saying we need to stay the course isn't going to make it work. They are failing now, why would they think that doing more of the same will turn it around there. I don't say we need to pull out and leave Iraq in even more chaos. But that option is preferable to staying there and not doing good while our soldiers are being killed. Either we get enough troops in there, make a change, and start to make progress toward stabilization, or we need to get all of our people out. My preference for choices are in the following order. 1. Work with allies, Iraqis, retraining U.S. troops and getting enough support into Iraq to finish the job. 2. Remove all of our troops, and tell the Iraqis we will support a democratically elected govt. with money and training, but our occupation is over. 3. Stay the course. Which means make no progress and continue losing this war while people are dying left and right. Bush is choosing option number 3.
Antiwar protests: Los Angeles... ...San Francisco... ...Seattle... ...Washington D.C.... Prowar counter-protest: Warning: The poster did not photochop these pictures. They are adopted from a tabloid site, not from respected MSM. Believe them at your own peril.
Those who support the war don't need to have a rally, the US is already implementing that policy. That would be like have a rally for women's suffrage.
Maybe they finally got sick of blue collar television and Larry the Cable guy. I would have been at the Houston rally had this beeeyotch named Rita not thrown a monkey wrench into everyone's weekend plans.
The idea right now is that Iraq troops should be trained to handle the situation over there. At the same time we are handling it until they are ready. But we also have US troops who say they are trained to fight wars not be policemen. We don't have enough troops and equipment right there now, and that is why we aren't winning. There are a couple of ways of handling #1. Several other nations have offered to train Iraqi troops to take over responsibility for their own policing. Bush has turned them down because they won't put troops into Iraq. Start taking France, and these other nations up on their offers, let's get more and more troops trained. Work again on getting more foreign troops, to help out which will include letting other nations have a say in how things are done in Iraq. Their troops will be on the line so they should have a say. Put more of our troops and equipment into Iraq. The soldiers complain they aren't trained to be policemen, then we need to start training them to be policemen. This kind of policing duty is more likely than conventional warfare, and we need this kind of training to modernize our military. We owe our soldiers the training they need to handle the jobs they are asked to do. We need to admit there have been mistakes made there, and announce that we are taking the necessary steps to fix the problems win this thing in Iraq once and for all so we can bring our troops home. I am more than happy to listen to any other ideas proposed on how to get the mission accomplished for real in Iraq. If we don't have a leadership with the stomach to do the job, then they need to pull out. Just sitting there being targets and not winning isn't an option I am satisfied with.
The anti-war movement and rallies have been overshadowed in the news by mother nature. The national news media has tunnel vision and can only focus on one major subject. Besides, the doom scenario music they have been playing wouldn't go well with an anti-war rally.
An event of this magnitude is difficult to postpone a week, but it seems like they should have tried. Hardly anyone outside of the marchers themselves knows that this peace march even happened this weekend. A great cause, but this march was meant to move a nation ~ since everyone in the country was focused on the hurricane I think they probably missed their goal by quite a margin.
