First of all, yes steve does turn the ball over too much yes he doesn't have good decision making ability. However he has toned down his game and does refer to Yao. To everyone who thinks he should pass it to Yao everytime, should we not try to develop a well balanced offensive attack, should steve just stand idley and pass to yao everytime down the floor? Obviously his fg% has gone down and it should be expected as the rockets have clogged the hole up with Yao, Cato and their respective defenders and defenders cheating on Yao, but still his poor perimeter shot is dissapointing. That being said, over the past 4 years Steve hasn't been playing the position of a point guard he's been playing as the teams sole creator for the most part, we relied him to do so much more than just being point guard. However over the past 4 years he did not really showcase great point guard play though, and upon drafting Yao and forseeing the team being handed over to Yao shouldn't management have displayed some long term "stragerie" thinking and seen the need for a protypical pg in a Yao-centric offense. Shouldn't management have seen that they didn't have a point guard for the past 4 years, but just a goto guy. Does everyone expect that in one season steve francis would learn how to be an effective point guard, as people thought Iverson should have been able to be an effective point guard. As a team scout shouldn't you have seen that Steve is really a scorer, not a passer. It just seems that expecting Steve to play effectively as a point guard is the same is as expecting Cato to play effectively as a small forward. Neither player have shown over the past four years the attributes needed for those positions. So whining about steve being a horrible point guard is useless, why not whine about Carrol Dawson and the rest of the people in charge of personnel not seeing the need for a point guard as they did not have one for the past 4 years. Those are my thoughts, let me know what you think.
I agree with you for the most part. But, I don't know why you had to start a brand new thread when there are about 20 other threads just like this one that you could of responded to.
First of all, paragraphs would really help. I think the opinions of people here is not that Steve can't ever become a good point guard in the Rockets system. But rather his skills just aren't suited for them. Just as Yao would not be suited for a run&gun type of running offense. Simply put, Steve's talents are wasted in this type of offense. That he can better help another team than on the Rockets. While a lesser talented PG can replace Steve and not hurt the offense, and might even make it better.
I started made a new post because it seemed every other thread was 50% straight stevie haterism, 40% "He's not a true pg, doesn't fit the system, so trade him", and 10% defending steve. Didn't want to get into that , anyways seems like what you said could go for every new hate steve francis thread.
Stats don't support your "Steve has toned it down" premise. YEAR .....Min.......FGA...... A.......FG/m....As/m........FGA/as 02-03...3,318.....1,312....502......0.395....0.151..... 2.61 03-04...2,378......880......353......0.371....0.148......2.49 There is basically no statistical difference between last season and the current one. This is evidenced by the rate at which he shoots per 48 minutes: FGA/48 MIN 02-03 = 18.98 03-04 = 17.76 I guess the question is...how do you develop a well-balanced attack when the person handling the ball the majority of the time is shooting a horrible %age.
Wouldn't you want to post his stats for turnovers and show if they stayed the same or increased to show his game being toned down or not. Anyways, some of the shots Steve takes are forced shots at the end of the buzzer or shot clock which add to the FGA and the lack of an increase of his assists could be due to the fact that when you dump the ball into the post, which we do more of now, and the post player makes a move on his own ala Yao, Mo, I don't think it technically counts as an assist. However, my saying that Steve has "toned down" his game is based on him trying harder than before to fit into the system, and staying away from the his style of the past 4 years. It was not based on stats.
Well, I guess since "toned it downed" can't be found in a dictionary then whatever Francis is doing is pretty subjective. Van Gundy is on record before the season started as wanting Francis to take the same number of shots but with fewer dribbles. That's Van Gundy talking...not me. According to what I provided prior, Francis' shots per minute played are almost identical comparing last season to this. And although Francis is taking the same number of shots per minute, the Van Gundy Rockets are playing a more ball control game and taking fewer shots as a team. That doesn't equate to "toned it down" in my vocabulary. Of course, many are going to buy into Steve's excuse about having to take a shot as the shot clock is running down while totally ignoring who is starting the teams' half court possession. Further, if you divide either the TO/minute played or the assists/minute played, Francis is also nearly identical to last season in these categories as well. My conclusion is (and has been for a long time) that Francis is both a rhythm and a volume shooter and doesn't shoot particularly well flat-footed or catch-and-shoot style. Not a good PG for an inside out game.
Who cares about a PG. The position of the traditional PG died out when Stockton retired and there's pretty much only Jason Kidd left. Just get a player that has a decent understanding of how to play basketball. Kobe isn't a PG, but he's a MUCH better passer.
That is sad, but very true. It will eventually destroy the NBA in my opinion. You could make the argument that it all ready has if you look at the decline of NBA ratings league wide.
Who was the last GREAT TRUE PG to get a ring? Magic Johnson? Isiah was a TRUE PG by some folx accounts . . . he was a shoot first guy Rocket River
Everyone wants to mention the "3-2-1" shots as a reason for his fg%, but wasn't he taking those shots last season too? In fact, it was the 1st thing JVG complained about at the beginning of the season; too many of our possessions would end with our "best player" taking some horrible shot. I honestly feel like the Steve hating is mostly what people perceive as poor play. Missed shots, turnovers, stupid passes late in games. Obviously, Steve is under a microscope with a lot of people and that just exaggerates any of his bad plays.
What is haterism anyway? Are we back to the age of the -ism now? I do understand that fashion repeat itself every 20 years... or less. I don't see how throwing out all these labels of "YOF"ism, "SOF"ism, and what not help an argument gains credibility beside making people go defensive. I believe most arguments against steve were justified, others are just people getting upset after a loss, just take those with a grain of salts. I don't believe any of the clutchfans here would not be very very happy to see Steve be really really successful. If someone is still b*t*hing after steve plays consistently well, then I may smell a hater.
I've always felt that one of the problems with Francis is that he hasn't ever been given time to grow into a system. Given the investment the Rocket's made in getting him I thought the wisest thing to do was to try to maximize that investment. For the last year I thought that meant figuring out how to get Francis and Yao to gel. Lately, however, I think we get the most for the Rockets and the most for Francis by trading him.
Sorry, accidently posted to soon. I meant to add that there is a difference between "hating" Francis and being objectivley critical of his performance. To me hating is when you make personal attacks on a player just because of a sorry performance, or when you overhype negatives and ignore positives just to bash a player. That kind of discussion really annoys me. However, it is totally fair to ask whether or not Francis, based on his performance, is the best fit for this team. I've generally sided with the Francis defenders for about a year now, but after watching him the last couple of months I have to agree that the Rockets are not a good fit for Francis. I wanted to withhold judgement until I felt Francis had time to learn the new system and more time working with Yao. Well, I've seen enough. I beleive Francis has tried hard to fit into the role JVG wants him to fill, but when he does come close to it he seems confined and inhibted. He looks like a Ferrari tying to do the job of a taxi. Francis is a scorer, and a star. His skills, and temperment do not fit what the Rockets want at the PG. He needs a system that will free him up. I've heard some say well, if Shaq and Kobe can get along than why not Francis and Yao. The comparison is off. Shaq and Kobe have Fisher at point. We have Yao, Catino, and Francis. We have the equivalent of two Kobe's as far as tempermant goes. I guess if everyone really wanted it bad enough it could work, but is it really the best thing for both parties? The image of a Ferrari Taxi keeps coming to mind.
I see what you guys are trying to say and I probably let the point of the post get away from me, but I just wanted to say how come CD didn't have the forsight to see that we would need a true point guard. However, what approach would you think would be better, trade SF and get a solid PG in return and keep Mobley at the 2, or trade CM and get a solid PG in return, granted with the SF trade if we just got a solid PG we would probably get some other compensation.
Steve's problem is primarily cerebral. We don't need Dr Phil, MJ or the US government to tell us that.
