I can't wait for the real details to come out on this one. ___________ Bush Plans $1.5 Billion Drive for Promotion of Marriage By ROBERT PEAR and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 — Administration officials say they are planning an extensive election-year initiative to promote marriage, especially among low-income couples, and they are weighing whether President Bush should promote the plan next week in his State of the Union address. For months, administration officials have worked with conservative groups on the proposal, which would provide at least $1.5 billion for training to help couples develop interpersonal skills that sustain "healthy marriages." The officials said they believed that the measure was especially timely because they were facing pressure from conservatives eager to see the federal government defend traditional marriage, after a decision by the highest court in Massachusetts. The court ruled in November that gay couples had a right to marry under the state's Constitution. "This is a way for the president to address the concerns of conservatives and to solidify his conservative base," a presidential adviser said. Several conservative Christian advocacy groups are pressing Mr. Bush to go further and use the State of the Union address to champion a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage. Leaders of these groups said they were confused by what they saw as the administration's hedging and hesitation concerning an amendment. Administration officials said they did not know if Mr. Bush would mention the amendment, but they expressed confidence that his marriage promotion plan would please conservatives. Ronald T. Haskins, a Republican who has previously worked on Capitol Hill and at the White House under Mr. Bush, said, "A lot of conservatives are very pleased with the healthy marriage initiative." The proposal is the type of relatively inexpensive but politically potent initiative that appeals to White House officials at a time when they are squeezed by growing federal budget deficits. It also plays to Mr. Bush's desire to be viewed as a "compassionate conservative," an image he sought to cultivate in his 2000 campaign. This year, administration officials said, Mr. Bush will probably visit programs trying to raise marriage rates in poor neighborhoods. "The president loves to do that sort of thing in the inner city with black churches, and he's very good at it," a White House aide said. In the last few years, some liberals have also expressed interest in marriage-education programs. They say a growing body of statistical evidence suggests that children fare best, financially and emotionally, in married two-parent families. The president's proposal may not be enough, though, for some conservative groups that are pushing for a more emphatic statement from him opposing gay marriage. "We have a hard time understanding why the reserve," said Glenn T. Stanton, a policy analyst at Focus on the Family, a conservative Christian organization. "You see him inching in the right direction. But the question for us is, why this inching? Why not just get there?" The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of a national group called the Traditional Values Coalition, has started an e-mail campaign urging Mr. Bush to push for an amendment opposing the legal recognition of same-sex marriage. Other groups, like the Southern Baptist Convention and Focus on the Family, are pushing more quietly for the same thing, through contacts with White House officials, especially Karl Rove, the president's chief political aide, who has taken a personal interest in maintaining contacts with evangelical groups. In an interview with ABC News last month, Mr. Bush was asked if he would support a constitutional amendment against gay marriage and gay civil unions. "If necessary," he said, "I will support a constitutional amendment which would honor marriage between a man and a woman, codify that, and will — the position of this administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state, or does start at the state level." Asked to cite the circumstances in which a constitutional amendment might be needed, Trent Duffy, a White House spokesman, said on Tuesday, "That is a decision the president has to make in due time." The House of Representatives has approved a proposal to promote marriage as part of a bill to reauthorize the 1996 welfare law, but the bill is bogged down in the Senate. Without waiting for Congress to act, the administration has retained consultants to help state and local government agencies, community organizations and religious groups develop marriage-promotion programs. Wade F. Horn, the assistant secretary of health and human services for children and families, said: "Marriage programs do work. On average, children raised by their own parents in healthy, stable married families enjoy better physical and mental health and are less likely to be poor." Prof. Linda J. Waite, a demographer and sociologist at the University of Chicago, compiled an abundance of evidence to support such assertions in the book "The Case for Marriage" (Doubleday, 2000). Ms. Waite, a former president of the Population Association of America, said she was a liberal Democrat, but not active in politics. Some women's groups like the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund oppose government programs that promote marriage. "Such programs intrude on personal privacy, may ignore the risk of domestic violence and may coerce women to marry," said Timothy J. Casey, a lawyer at the fund. Administration officials said their goal was "healthy marriage," not marriage for its own sake. "We know this is a sensitive area," Dr. Horn said. "We don't want to come in with a heavy hand. All services will be voluntary. We want to help couples, especially low-income couples, manage conflict in healthy ways. We know how to teach problem-solving, negotiation and listening skills. This initiative will not force anyone to get or stay married. The last thing we'd want is to increase the rate of domestic violence against women." Under the president's proposal, federal money could be used for specific activities like advertising campaigns to publicize the value of marriage, instruction in marriage skills and mentoring programs that use married couples as role models. Federal officials said they favored premarital education programs that focus on high school students; young adults interested in marriage; engaged couples; and unmarried couples at the moment of a child's birth, when the parents are thought to have the greatest commitment to each other. Alan M. Hershey, a senior fellow at Mathematica Policy Research in Princeton, N.J., said his company had a $19.8 million federal contract to measure the effectiveness of such programs for unwed parents. Already, Mr. Hershey said, he is providing technical assistance to marriage-education projects in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, New Mexico and Texas. A major purpose, he said, is to help people "communicate about money, sex, child-raising and other difficult issues that come up in their relationships." Dr. Horn said that federal money for marriage promotion would be available only to heterosexual couples. As a federal official, he said, he is bound by a 1996 statute, the Defense of Marriage Act, which defined marriage for any program established by Congress. The law states, "The word `marriage' means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife." But Dr. Horn said: "I don't have any problem with the government providing support services to gay couples under other programs. If a gay couple had a child and they were poor, they might be eligible for food stamps or cash assistance." Sheri E. Steisel, a policy analyst at the National Conference of State Legislatures, said, "The Bush administration has raised this issue to the national level, but state legislators of both parties are interested in offering marriage education and premarital counseling to low-income couples."
does anyone really have a problem with this?? particularly people who volunteer with at-risk kids?? i mean...we know that not having a father-figure around is a HUGE precursor to all sorts of deviant behavior that society pays for later. we know what the support of having both parents in the house for children can do. (again..i'm not saying ALL children with single-parent homes are going to turn out to be delinquents --- I am saying they're far more likely to than those who come from two parent homes). i volunteered with a group at my church called Kids' Hope at a local elementary school. they send volunteers into the school to spend one hour each week with a kid they're assigned to. (and, no, there can be no mention of God...though we pray like crazy for the kids when we're away from the school)...with AMAZING results. i mean ridiculously amazing results. grades improve...behavior gets better..and the psychologists who study these things say that's largely because there's someone who shows they care...who shows up on time every single week...it's something they can depend on. and too many kids don't have adults they can depend on. when they do, their outlook changes and you can see real results in behavior and even in grades. that's how you change lives...that's how you change a society. losing families has all sorts of costs to us all...keeping them together, when possible, should be a priority.
I think it's a good idea, and I think the positive effects of marriage on children are immense and significant. I do have a bit of a problem with the fact that these funds are restricted to heterosexual couples. There are children out there with two dads or two moms, and it's not fair to them to deny their parents the funding, which would ultimately help them. I think it's kind of like our donation of AIDS money to Africa. I think it's an incredibly noble thing to give $5billion to them when they are in such desperate need of it. But restricting it to abstinence only programs (which have negligible success rates, and are far less successful than other programs) totally undermines the motive behind doing it. If the money for marriages is to ultimately benefit communities and children (which is how it is couched, and how I believe it should be spent) then let's do it fairly, freely, and most efficiently. This should have nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with the best interests of the communities and children, which, like it or not, do include non-heterosexual couples.
Things change when local groups (like your church Max) take the initiative upon themselves to make a difference. It just seems when the goverment gets involved in who does and doesn't get money it gets full of red tape and needless rules. If people would just see a need and help fix it (not look for goverment handouts) the world would change. Don't get me wrong I am all for hands out help to at-risk kids. I also volunteer with my church in partnership with an inner-city church reaching out to those kids and I help run a camp for special needs kids --- but I don't think we need goverment funds (and goverment regulations) to make them work. "If a man tried to take his life on earth and prove to the world what one mans life could be worth I wonder what would happen to this world" -- Harry Chapin
As long as the focus is on education and how to be a successful couple, I think this is a great idea. If it goes further and starts encouraging people to get married, I think there's a problem. A marriage that wasn't truly, honestly wanted by both parties is a recipe for disaster in my opinion - it seems to me that's where there'd be the most resentment and anger, and more potential for both spousal and child abuse. I don't think the gov't should be in the business of encouraging or discouraging people to/from getting married.
Cesar -- while yours is a very conservative position...which i typically agree with...i guess my point is that, the whole idea of what govt. should or shouldn't be doing has been blown out of the water, anyway, in the realm of social issues. if we're doing other things in that realm, why not give some pat on the back to marriage? or do something to "vocalize" some social support for that in some way. again..it's hard to judge this until we have an idea of the particulars, as rimrocker said. but, in general, i think keeping marriages together and building them up is something we as a society ought to be about..and do a better job with.
I agree we need more details and I think we all agree that the state of marriage/families needs attention and work and I'm certainly for anything that can help that.
I agree...I think we're all in agreement having a happy, healthy marriage (two parents) speaks volumes to a childs future behavior...
Then we can tax the hell of having kids. This will help with over-population, and funding schools, etc. People without children should be given tax breaks a well, for not putting a costlier burden on society.
This has the *potential* to be a fantastic plan. But limiting support to hetero couples is extremely weak. I guess children of gay parents don't need any support.
First, the leading cause of divorce is financial strain. Wouldn't you rather have $1.5 billion go towards creating jobs? Second, look at the groups behind this and the target audiences... I will be very surprised if there is not some major wierdness and privacy issues coming out of this. And, what (true)conservative wants the government "teaching" morals and values that should be learned in the home? Mybe I'm not getting it, but this seems antithetical to the position of most cons on related issues. Damn Liberal social engineers... people have promoted marriage for eons and now someone from Washington wants to start a program to teach me the right way to be married? And what about expansion of government? Am I the only one that can envision this program expanding into The Department of Approved Marriages? Maybe this all goes back to jobs and that huge deficit in the faith-based marriage promotion sector?
Okay, time to step on some toes. We'll give you a tax credit if he doesn't consume resources and polute at about seven times the rate of the many sad sack kids in the third world (that's the current average for American kids). I love kids, and I'm happy that good people like Madmax are having them, but we have to paint the entire story. We have to ask hard questions, such as: what's the best societal strategy for population growth, given our current population? Maybe no tax credits after kid #2? Any takers on that one? That would encourage zero net growth, or a slight decrease when zero kid freaks are figured in.
Holy crap, we actually agree on something! I'm all for the promotion of marriage, I think it's a great thing. Except if it involves the government and our tax dollars. I pretty much agree with every word of Cesar^Geronimo's first post in this thread.
most marriage counselors say this is not true. that's it's a convenient thing both parties can say after the fact, but that it very rarely is at the root of a marriage breaking up.