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Another day another mass shooting

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AleksandarN, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Oh so you’re just gonna ignore all my questions and then I have to answer yours?
     
  2. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    The right has blocked everything the left has brought up to vote. Why has the right blocked the ERA? Why has the right blocked background checks?
     
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  3. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I’ve answered many of your questions. You ignore mine. That’s no way to dialogue. Answer my questions and I’ll answer yours.
     
  4. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    What did you answer? Other than your solution(that you don't have realistic means to, achieve) to gun violence which the right against. Not only that they are against the will of people when it comes to the ERA. Background checks, etc. You identify as a person on the right. right? What do you want me to answer
     
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  5. HTM

    HTM Member

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    What is your solution to mass shootings? I gave a solution that will actually solve the problem.
     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Democrats can't get past the NRA lobby. Even the one measure they had got repealed by Republicans (brady bill).

    There are solutions without repealing the 2nd Amendment - and you are right, it's not these half measures.
     
  7. dumbartonbass

    dumbartonbass Contributing Member
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    You are proposing a solution that you know is politically impossible and acting like anything short of it is pointless. That mindset goes against a lot of American history which is often built on incremental change.

    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 doesn't happen without the Civil Rights Act of 1957 which doesn't happen without the Supreme Court deciding against segregation in Brown vs. Board of Education.

    Gay marriage doesn't become legalized nationwide without more liberal states legalizing it first (demonstrating how bans undermined the equal protection clause) which don't happen without sodomy laws being struck down in Lawrence v. Texas which doesn't happen without a strong gay rights movement which doesn't happen....

    The point is you're proposing an acceleration from 0 to 100 and saying all of the speed in between is pointless if you can't immediately go 100 mph.
     
  8. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Start of with background checks. Make the ones on the right to answer the will of the people pressure them. Every step you pressure. If that doesn't work you keep putting it up to vote. You don't stop. The right can not and should not hide from their responsibility to the people. Keep pressure until narrative changes.
     
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  9. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Background checks? That's your solution. So, say I wake up tomorrow in a United States with universal background checks before the purchase of a firearm, how many mass shootings am I stopping? What percentage of mass shooters would have failed a background check?

    Andrew Lanza? Took his parents guns.
    Nikolas Cruz? Passed a background check.
    Stephen Paddock? Nothing a background check would have brought up AFAIK.
    Dimitrios Pagourtzis? Took his parents guns.
    Payton S. Gendron? Cleared multiple background checks to purchase his guns.
    Salvador Romas? No reason to think a background check would do anything.
    Devin Patrick Kelley? Procedures were in place but broke down apparently.
    Patrick Wood Crusius? No reason to think a background check would have prevented his purchase of firearms.

    Just some of the more high profile shootings that come to mind my mind (not intentionally leaving anyone out).
     
  10. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    It is not a solution it is a start. You got to start from somewhere. Incremental changes. The right has been hiding behind the 2nd amendment far too long. You change the narrative you expose the people who have fought against the will of the people. It must change in this country. Make gun manufacturer carry liability insurance. Make gun owners carry insurance like car owners. There is a lot of incremental changes that can happen now.
     
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  11. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    That's exactly what conservatives fear - that giving an inch is just a start on the way to banning guns. That's why it will never work as the right will draw a hard line on that one and they have the entire GOP in their pocket as well as enough Dems to make it impossible.

    Instead you need one clear solution on how we are going to solve this problem once and for all and prevent guns from getting into the hands of crazies and criminals but still protecting the right of normal people to have their guns. That's the only way that has a shred of a chance and even then it's unlikely. But a clear platform is what you need to build momentum and garner popular support.
     
  12. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Well you're right about one thing, it's certainly not a solution. Most every perpetrator of a mass shooting has, or would breeze through a universal background check or has avoided them all together.

    I appreciate you stealing from @dumbartonbass some vague notion of "incremental changes" which will somehow, someday, result in the ending or drastic reduction in mass shootings. What will that look like exactly? Want to flesh that out?

    Because at some point, you're going to have to clean up the 100's of millions of gun floating about the country and make the purchase of new weapons something extremely rare and extraordinary or this is going to keep happening. That's almost assuredly going to require the repeal of the 2nd amendment. Which is what I suggested in the first place.
     
  13. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Well if they are against the will of the majority they will eventually be voted out. Changes will come. Background checks are a start. Age limits and training is another. ,Those are sensible actions that have the support of the populace. Keep the pressure on.
     
    #1553 AleksandarN, May 25, 2022
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Never Trump
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    The Right blocks because it is PAID OFF by the NRA and other lobbyists.

    The Right side of the aisle is corrupt and only represents their own pocket books.

    DD
     
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  15. AleksandarN

    AleksandarN Member

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    Expose them. Add more pressure, The more popular and sensible changes you go after. Let the right fall on their swords.
     
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  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Never Trump
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    I concur the dems need to take a stand and this is a good one.....to get behind.

    DD
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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  18. EddieWasSnubbed

    EddieWasSnubbed Contributing Member
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    To me, the start is to propose hefty fines for gun manufacturers and the people that sell them.

    Let's start by saying $5 million for every life lost in a mass shooting paid to a pot that is dispersed between the victim's family, mental health programs, and recovery programs for victims of violence and gun violence. This is to be paid by both the gun manufacturer and the business that sells the gun. There'd be a lot of businesses rethinking their choice to sell guns. Gun shows would close down, and there'd be far less guns on the street that way. Some gun manufacturers might even go out of business. Gun prices would rise, which would in turn make people question whether they really need that gun or not. It would also make guns more unobtainable for 18-year-olds. Especially two assault rifles.

    Next, let's start with a heavy tax per bullet on ammunition. Let's say 50 cents a bullet. You want to buy a hundred rounds to take to the gun range? It's going to cost you 50 bucks.

    Finally, let's start with a strong message from our leadership. How about a speech in which the president declares that anyone that is going to perpetrate a mass shooting like this will under no circumstance be taken alive. Yes, that violates the Constitution potentially. Yes, that may put an innocent life at risk in a very small fraction of these shootings, but a message like that is needed. No more taking these guys into custody in handcuffs. They should be taken out and body bags every single time. While these mass shooters probably don't care if they lose their life or not, knowing that a message like that has been sent, may make one or two people think twice before doing something like this.
     
    #1558 EddieWasSnubbed, May 25, 2022
    Last edited: May 25, 2022
  19. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Bullshit. The NRA’s President Wayne LaPierre was exposed for fraud and he still go re-elected. The lobby will always lean of fear of giving the government one inch. It’s why they always say, “shall not be infringed” like it’s the Lord’s Prayer.

    It’s a cult of Fudds that will not compromise. The only way to beat them is to outvote them. Simple yet very hard for the average American to sacrifice a few hours for.
     
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  20. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    There is nothing like the flood of Liberal Tears after an elementary school shooting with 19 children dead. amirite?

    There will be even more Liberal Tears when Texas passes a bill that forces all teachers and 18 year old students to carry or be fired/expelled.
     

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